TRANSCRIPT: SKY NEWS INTERVIEW WITH ELIZA EDWARDS, 18 December 2019
E&OE
Subjects: Farming; Bushfires; Drought; Review of the Basin Plan
ELIZA EDWARDS:
A report from ABARES today says that profits have dropped 22 per cent over the past two decades for crop farmers as a result of climate change. Is this loss of income the new normal for farmers?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well it's going to have an impact on farmers’ profitability going forward. They need to look at that when they are deciding what they're actually going to do on their farms. And I know there has been a lot of diversification in farming in the past few decades. But what I don't want farmers to do, and particularly those school leavers who yesterday in New South Wales would have received their High School Certificate results, to think that there's not profit to be made in farms, to think that there's no future in agriculture because there is. And the Australian Federal Liberal Nationals Government is making sure that we increase farming and agriculture by $60 billion to $100 billion industry by 2030. Now I know we share that view with the National Farmers Federation and other farmers’ organisations, whether it's AgForce in Queensland, VFF in Victoria, New South Wales Farmers and others. We want to make sure that we grow agriculture to a $100 billion industry and we can and we will. And we will on the back of hard work and innovation technology, that's all coming into farming. And yes, whilst I appreciate that profits have taken a hit, we've had a number of severe droughts over the past 20 years. And whilst I appreciate ABARES doesn’t give out these statistics lightly, there is a big future in agriculture.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
But it is harder to make a living off the land right now?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well true. But there are some farmers as well who are making good money and my father, my late father Lance who farmed properties at Marrar and Brucedale for decades always told me that farming was a nine year cycle; three years very good years, three years average and three years not so good and so it is cyclical and there is money to be made out of farming.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
With no rain forecast until April next year, this drought is going to get worse over the summer. Farmers can’t wait until the May budget surely. Are the Nationals going to push for more support and more stimulus before then?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well I’m out and about in a regional community as are all my Nationals colleagues and as are many of my Liberal colleagues. We know that the drought is taking its toll. We know that there's more work to be done. Of course as the forecast does not look good, we'll be monitoring the situation, we'll be taking of course those soundings from public hall meetings from just getting out and talking to farmers over the farm fence, over the farm gate as we do all the time, as I’ve done over the last couple of days back in my own Riverina electorate. We take those soundings, we go back to Canberra and yes we do lobby for extension to drought assistance. And I'm here with Andrew Constance today, the New South Wales Minister. And we’re working together as New South Wales is, as Commonwealth governments-
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Before the next budget though?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well look we’ll see how the situation is. We’ve already put more than $8 million of assistance on the table and if we need to do more we will.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Okay. Will the Government engage with former fire chiefs planning a summit, a national summit on bushfires and climate change after the current bushfire season?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well of course, we always engage with everybody who's got an interest in these sorts of things and I appreciate that many people, not just Greg Mullins and his crowd but many others are also coming forward with ideas and ways of how we can better manage bushfires in the future. But also we need to take on board those people who are in the current positions and those people who are presently occupying positions of authority to make sure that we work with them first to combat these fires. We're doing just that and of course it's not just climate change, there’s many reasons why these bushfires have occurred. In South Australia for instance there was a pile of horse manure that self-combusted, there's been lightning strikes, but there's also been many, many people who've actually started these fires. Already 56 arrests and potentially, the police are looking at many others with a view to actually laying arson charges and that's unfortunate.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Sure. But the land's going up because it's so dry.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
And indeed it is. We're in the middle of a- many people say one of the worst droughts they’ve ever seen. In fact, one of the worst droughts in history. And of course that doesn't help when you've got a dry tinder load, when you've got laws that in some cases make it difficult to get rid of that load, that fuel load, that fire load before the season. That has made it difficult for some people to actually get in and do the fire breaks and those sorts of things. So of course it’s dry and that’s also going to lead to bushfires starting.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
The ex-firies say that they're filling a leadership vacuum in Canberra because the Government won't talk about fires and climate change. What's your response to that?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well we're addressing the fires, we’re ensuring that we've got the right resourcing and the right people to put the fires out. That's a critically important point at the moment.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
But climate change?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well of course climate change is an issue. But as I say again, so is arson, so is natural events that are not climate change and are not arson that are also creating these fires. So there's a number of things that are creating these fires. The important thing is at the moment, is that we've put them out.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
But Deputy PM you can see the smoke haze around us right now caused by these fires. It’s what everyone's talking about right now, it’s the water cooler conversation that's being had.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
And we’ve had these smoke hazes before. We’ve had bushfires before. We’ve had droughts before. And rest assured, while some people are out there saying it will never rain again and the rivers will never flow again – I know Tim Flannery has been on that case for many years – the fact is we will, once again, in the not too distant future, be back into a flood situation. And that is Australia. It is a land of droughts and flooding rains and that’s just the way it is. Yes, these fires are severe. Yes, in some cases, they are unprecedented but in other cases, they are what happens in Australia.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Have these fires been a tipping point in terms of people’s views on climate change?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, a lot of people, yes, believe the science. A lot of people do. But there are some who do say that, again, climate change is not causing all of these fires. You know, when you’ve got people running around starting fires, you can't blame that on climate change. Yes, you can blame the dry conditions in some degree on climate change. Yes, you can. We are in the middle of a terrible drought but we've had droughts before. We've had fires before. And we'll get through this. But the important thing is for those people who've lost houses, for those people who've lost loved ones, they just want the fires put out. They want their area to be safe again and they want the smoke haze to blow away. And it will.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Parents are taking their children to hospitals with respiratory conditions right now. Can you understand why they’re anxious?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
I can. Absolutely. I've got- you know, I've had young children. They’re now thankfully grown up. But the fact is, yes, of course. Your children are everything and I appreciate that people want the very best for them. And if they have respiratory conditions, if they are wheezing and they are suffering in these conditions, then the best place for them is to take them to emergency ward.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
And the fact that there's a massive heatwave gripping the country right now. Heat records are going to be tumbling. Do you think- do you think …
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Again, it is December and it is summer. So we've had- and I know in my own home town on the weekend, they’ve already called the cricket off. It's going to be 45 degrees. Again, I say we've had temperatures that high before in December and in summer. Yes, we are experiencing a heatwave and yes, we are experiencing terrible fires, but it's not as if it hasn't happened before.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
But is climate change making these events worse than they’ve ever been?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Yes.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Worse than they've ever been before?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, climate change is a factor.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Labor frontbencher Stephen Jones tweeted: what would Scott Morrison said if Julia Gillard had taken a holiday while bushfires burn through New South Wales? Labor accusing him of lacking judgment. What do you say to the criticism that Scott Morrison shouldn't have gone away right now?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, I’m sure Stephen Jones will probably go on a holiday at some stage too and I'm sure Anthony Albanese will as well. I saw him criticising the Prime Minister yesterday where he’s entitled to a holiday.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Is there a risk that the review of the water sharing arrangements under the Basin Plan won't be possible without Victoria and South Australia?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, we're going to try and work through that. I appreciate the ministers met yesterday. I appreciate the fact that it was an important meeting. We need to make sure that we get through this situation with the states on board. Thankfully, none of the states have pulled the pin on the Basin Plan. They all appreciate that this has taken a long time to get where we are at the moment. The Basin Plan is not perfect. But it's what we have in the Federal Parliament. It's what the states signed up to and agreed to and we need to work through it. Again, we need to, of course, wait until it rains again. We, of course, also on the march to building more water infrastructure. And I'm so pleased that just in recent weeks, we've announced Dungowan Dam in New South Wales, an extension to the wall at Wyangala Dam near Cowra and Forbes. They are going to make such a critical difference for future droughts. And of course, we've got $8 billion on the table to get through this drought, and including a $5 million Future Drought Fund.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
But without New South Wales contributing any more to the 450 gigalitres needed for environmental flows, isn’t that essentially them pulling the pin on the Basin Plan?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, that 450 gigalitres, which was signed away at Goolwa in 2012 by Julia Gillard, that's the genesis of that 450 gigalitres. That was always predicated, thanks to the Liberal-Nationals Government when we got into power, on there being a triple-bottom line approach for those 450 gigalitres. So, if there's not a complete sharing of social and economic and environmental outcomes for that water, then that water won’t and can't be delivered. So it has to ensure that water will never be delivered if it's going to have a social and economic downturn for those communities which rely on river water, which rely on irrigated water. And so, to that end, it was always going to be very difficult to deliver.
Yes, of course, we need to make sure that there's water for the environment but we also need to make sure that there’s water for our irrigated farmers. And at the moment, with the state allocations, some of those communities around Deniliquin, Mildura, they’ve got very little and in some areas, none at all. Our cotton farmers in northern New South Wales, who get the blame for a lot haven’t had a water allocation for four years. So let's not forget that. So there are farmers doing it tough but it will rain again. There will be water in the Murray-Darling system again and we look forward to that.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Just on your portfolio, does Jetstar have an obligation to its customers to sit down and work through this toxic pay dispute with unions, and are you confident it won't disrupt travel plans for people over Christmas?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, yes. I think there needs to be a situation there where they all come together in an amicable way and resolve this situation. Of course, it always happens at this time of year too that some people decide to disrupt the travel plans of others, and that's unfortunate. But it would be good if they could come around the table and reach a good resolution so that people can get on with their travel plans over the Christmas-New Year period.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Are you optimistic that's going to happen?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, I’m always optimistic about all things happening. I'm a positive person.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
President Trump is on the verge of being impeached. What do you make of what's happening in US politics right now?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Look, I'm worrying about Australia. The bushfires, the drought. Got enough on my mind being Acting Prime Minister. We'll let that situation play out in America. We'll see what happens.
ELIZA EDWARDS:
Thanks so much.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Okay. No worries at all.