TRANSCRIPT: Interview with Sabra Lane, AM, ABC Radio Canberra, 16 July 2019
E&OE
Subjects: CSIRO; Adani; National Water Grid; Water Infrastructure; Dams
SABRA LANE:
You might remember yesterday we brought you the report about towns in northern New South Wales and southern Queensland that are suffering in the drought. In a worst case scenario, some of them could run out of water during the next six to 12 months. Michael McCormack is the Deputy Prime Minister and the leader of the Nationals and the Infrastructure Minister and he joins us now.
Good morning and welcome.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Good morning Sabra.
SABRA LANE:
Just on that story about Adani, how concerned are you that Adani demanded the names of CSIRO scientists reporting on its water plants?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well for a start, a Greens candidate worrying that somebody looking at their LinkedIn profile – I thought that was the whole purpose of LinkedIn. You put your name out there, you put your details up there and you want people who are on LinkedIn to actually look at your profile to see what you are about. I mean that's just a typical Greens candidate, you know, wanting to get a bit of media attention. But look, on the broader topic – I can understand that proponents of the Carmichael mine, their frustration, I mean they were made to jump through more environmental hoops than perhaps any previous project in the nation. And no doubt they wanted to determine that I suppose, those arguing against their proposals were not just some sort of quasi anti-development groups or individuals. And sometimes you do have-
SABRA LANE:
[Interrupts] Sorry Mr McCormack, we're talking about CSIRO scientists here. The nub of the question-
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
I appreciate that.
SABRA LANE:
Critics are worried it was intimidating.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well look, and I appreciate that there were many, many people under lots and lots of banners saying things and suggesting things about Adani that just quite frankly weren’t true. I'm not suggesting the CSIRO, of course, were in any way shape or form. But we have the local Indigenous owners voting 294 to one for the project to go ahead. When you know that the project is going to create many hundreds, in fact 1500 direct and indirect jobs in the construction for the mine and the rail during this period and many more ongoing jobs after the operation begins. And the company has jumped through every environmental hurdle that it was expected to, you know, you do start to wonder what are the modus operandi of some of those people who were against it. And of course, we have Bob Brown and the Greens leading the charge.
SABRA LANE:
And again, I point to you- we're talking about CSIRO scientist here and that was the nub of the question.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
And I’ve suggested that the CSIRO are definitely, very much independent and I respect their work and always will.
SABRA LANE:
All right. Onto the water and drought. Under a worst case scenario, there are a number of towns that could run out of water soon: Tenterfield, Warwick, Stanthorpe. More than a decade on from the Millennium Drought, why are they still vulnerable?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well they're vulnerable because it has not rained and they're vulnerable too because, you know, we want states to work with us to build more dams, to build more water infrastructure, and that's why we've got $1.3 billion on the table, half a billion dollars added late last year to the National Water Infrastructure Development Fund. Just in recent months, I've created the National Water Grid and we’re getting on with the details of exactly how we'll roll that out to ensure that the petty politics is taken out of the equation and we use the best available science, we use organisations like the CSIRO. We mentioned them, they've identified six potential dam sites in northern Australia where we could tap harvest water and then use it for these dry times and so it is an exciting time for the building of dams. I want to get on board. I've spoken to any number of state ministers and state premiers in recent times about just that.
SABRA LANE:
Okay. But on that National Water Infrastructure Development Fund, as you point out, $1.3 billion, but it was put in place six years ago to fund improvements in water infrastructure. Will any of those projects help towns with their supplies or were they geared more towards producers?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well it's actually both. I mean we want to also mitigate against floods. We want to make sure that we grow food and fibre. And yes, we want to make sure that there's water. Emu Swamp is a wonderful project in the Stanthorpe, in the Granite Belt region to make sure that we do, we tick any number of boxes. And if you look at some of the projects that we've already put forward, we just want to get on with doing them [indistinct]…
SABRA LANE:
How many, six years on, how many of those projects have been completed?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well we've announced, just in recent times, Scottsdale, Forth in Tasmania, we’re actually doing…
SABRA LANE:
No, no, no. Sorry Minister, completed. A number of projects are under way, but how many have been completed?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well we're still working with the states and that's why put I’ve put in place the National Water Grid to actually get things done. It’s too long since we’ve built a dam in this country, Sabra, and wherever I go, when I talk dams, it will cheer. And whether that was at Brisbane at the weekend, at an event I was at or whether that's in country Australia, when you talk about dams, people just want them, they get it. I just wish the states would get on board. The New South Wales Government's been good; I want Queensland to work with this as well and other states.
SABRA LANE:
On water trading, should non farmers be able to trade water if they're not relying on it to grow produce?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well that's how the market operates and farmers use the water market to…
SABRA LANE:
It is, but I'm asking you – should they be allowed to? In hindsight, was this a mistake?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well that's what the farmers wanted and that enables trading in the actual market for farmers to make money during times of hardship, when they need to pay down debt, when they need to actually make ends meet because they can't grow anything because of water allocations have dried up. They sometimes they need to be able to sell their water and if there’s a non-producing buyer in the market. then I can't see that there's anything wrong with that. But of course, we do need to look at how it's happening and that's why the ACCC has been called in to investigate all these sorts of things. That's why we're looking at indeed, the Murray-Darling Basin Plan, it’s an adaptive plan. We want to make sure that farmers have the necessary water to grow food and fibre and of course, we want to make sure that towns have the available drinking supply and domestic supplies as well. It's really important.
SABRA LANE:
In hindsight, in hindsight was it a mistake to separate land from water rights?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
No, I don't believe that because farmers have actually made a lot of money out of it. And you know we want our farmers to succeed and look it will rain again. We're going to build the dams to be able to store the water and we're going to make sure that we drought proof our nation even better – better soils, better dam and water infrastructure. And I'm looking forward to going to Dubbo on Thursday to talk all things regional, but particularly drought with the Prime Minister.
SABRA LANE:
Michael McCormack, Deputy Prime Minister, thanks for joining AM this morning.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Thank you Sabra.