TRANSCRIPT: Interview with Kieran Gilbert, Sky News , 23 July 2019
E&OE
Subjects: Drought relief fund, Newstart
KIERAN GILBERT:
Deputy Prime Minister, thanks so much for your time.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Pleasure.
KIERAN GILBERT:
How soon will the drought fund – the money start to be invested?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well very, very soon. And certainly, had the bill been passed when it first went into the Parliament, the money would’ve already been invested and they’re saying that $67 million of interest has been lost. But the fact is it’s gone through the House of Representatives, that’s important. The fact is we’ve always supported our farmers. We will continue to do so and it's part, it's the centrepiece of a suite of measures totalling $7 billion that we've put on the table since this drought began and we will continue to monitor the situation.
We were at the Dubbo Bush Summit last week. A number of farmers told us they want us to build drought dams and that's why we've put it in the National Water Infrastructure Grid.
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Interrupts] So this one- yeah. We'll get to the water infrastructure specifically in a moment, but this $100 million a year is about creating a resilience, isn’t there…
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
[Talks over] Oh indeed.
KIERAN GILBERT:
… and adapting to droughts as they happen.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well part of Australia is always going to be in drought. Any given year, it’s a big country, there's always going to be part of Australia which is going to be in drought. So $100 billion will be drawn down to address those issues in that particular area each and every year.
KIERAN GILBERT:
And what sort of thing can you improve because a drought seems like there aren't that many options, but can you be more resilient in the face of drought?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well the people are the resilient ones and, you know, I know even this year when we've given money to such organisations. There’s the Country Women's Association, Rotary, they've given it out in either food hampers and food packs, sought and sourced locally, but they've also put on concerts and those sorts of things to build people's morale because flagging spirits is something, you know, that also need to be addressed in the drought.
Our country people are the most resilient people in all of Australia but they do need a bit of a leg up sometimes and, you know, those organisations like Rotary, like CWA and others have really come to the floor on the back of that money that's been issued to them by the government.
KIERAN GILBERT:
And it is a lot each year but obviously it's something that Labor has backed although they haven't backed the source of the funds. They backed the spend.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
[Interrupts] Well they had to be dragged, kicking and screaming to the table last night. And I know Tony Burke's a good fellow. I know he is; I know he's been out to Griffith. He's looked at the irrigators in the eye during the Murray-Darling Basin, you know, the meetings where they were pretty fiery in every sense of the word. I know he looked those people in the eyes and I was disappointed last night when he obfuscated and, you know …
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Interrupts] But they said they’d back as much as you wanted to spend, didn't they?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, but they didn't show that- they didn't show that same spirit last night in the Parliament when they did everything they could to stall the passing of the legislation and using - you know, and when you're a farmer and you're looking at an empty trough or cattle or sheep that you just can't afford to feed and you’re then watching the replays or watching it live the Parliament and they're talking about clause A and clause B of procedural motions and this and that and you think to yourself - why can't they just pass this, why can’t it be bipartisan?
KIERAN GILBERT:
But isn’t it the Government- wouldn't you say, some people would say, it’s the Government playing politics with this because you've demanded this fund come from an infrastructure spend
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
[Interrupts] last October
KIERAN GILBERT:
… but Labor has said they will back whatever envelope of money you want to spend on drought. And yet you're saying they're against the farmers, they're not on board but really they are, aren’t they?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Eventually – eventually, they came on board but they had to be kicking and dragging and screaming, brought to the table to do that. I mean they should have just said on- when it was passed on February, when it went through the House of Reps in February, they should have backed it then. They didn’t and, you know, we could have been in a much better position now had they backed the legislation in the last Parliament, they did not. And let's see how they actually act when it comes to this [indistinct]…
KIERAN GILBERT:
Many of the people in, as you said, in the towns affected by the droughts and it affects the whole community. Obviously, not everyone …
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
[Interrupts] It affects the whole nation.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Well sure it does but not everyone in those towns and regional areas are on farms, they're unemployed. Barnaby Joyce is saying that there should be an increase to Newstart because it's- these people - these very people that you want to support on the one hand are struggling on Newstart on the other. What do you say to that?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
[Interrupts] And yeah, there are jobs out there in regional Australia and there are good paying jobs and what I think we do need in this country is a more mobile workforce. And so people have to be prepared to move, sometimes out of their comfort zone, out of their home town and move to the next town to take a job. There are jobs there, it's just that you're not always going to get your job in the home town that you've grown up in, you're not always going to get the job that you actually want for the right here and now.
But a job, any job will be better than none at all and it will be better than living on welfare and certainly with Newstart, it is that stop gap, it is that safety net measure. It's not meant to be a living wage …
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Interrupts] So you wouldn't support an increase?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well what I do support is more jobs growth and we've already, through business, helped create the economic conditions to grow …
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Interrupts] But doesn't Newstart - it has to be a level where people can at least feed themselves, dress themselves, pay for accommodation. Has it …
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
[Interrupts] Indeed and it would be a very meagre existence but it's only supposed to be a safety net between jobs. There are jobs out there and that's why I encourage people who have either slipped through the cracks and they just can't find work at the moment to look around. There's many jobs. You go into Dubbo, I mean it's always full employment at Dubbo and there’s - you go up the main streets of some regional towns indeed regional capitals and there are notes in the window to say job available, you know, apply within and there are so many jobs. But people have to be able to, you know, have the wherewithal to go to those places and have the capacity and indeed have the innovative spirit to actually move out of sometimes their hometown that they've lived all their life and go to a town where there are jobs available.
KIERAN GILBERT:
How do you encourage that though? Because that's …
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
[Interrupts] I’m encouraging it now and look …
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Interrupts] It's a very tough thing to achieve.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
It is. And what I'd also like to say is, you know, the media portray a more positive image of our regional towns. Regional Australia is not broken down. It is actually going - not drought notwithstanding - it is actually going reasonably well despite the drought, and that's on the back of the $100 million that we've given to 110 councils, a million dollars each to 110 councils. That’s helped generate money, keep jobs in the town, and we'll continue to monitor the situation very, very closely and back our farmers, but also back all those people in regional Australia, particularly business.
KIERAN GILBERT:
So you’ll monitor the Newstart level. Is that what you're saying as well?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, we monitor everything, and when you've got a stronger economy …
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Interrupts] You're open to it?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, you know, you've got to be always open to everything. And, but the fact is, we went to the election with our policies. We were elected on our policies, and one of those big frameworks was actually growing the economy. When you can grow the economy, you can do lots of things.
KIERAN GILBERT:
On the water infrastructure you touched on earlier, is that- do you see the necessary dams in that infrastructure for regional areas? Is that part of this drought fund? Will it be funded by that $100 million dollars?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
No. No.
KIERAN GILBERT:
This is a separate?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
It’s separate, and we've got a National Water Infrastructure Development Fund. There's $1.3 billion in it, topped up by half a billion dollars late last year.
KIERAN GILBERT:
And what's the priority on that?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Building dams.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But what dams? Have you got any on …
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Oh, Emu Swamp. I've spoken to Anthony Lynham, the Water Resources Minister in Queensland, just the other day. Had a meeting face to face, eye balled him, I want them to get on board and build this dam in the Granite Belt. It will grow agriculture, it will have stock and domestic usage. You know, there are dam projects that will also mitigate against floods. Rookwood Weir, I want the Queensland Government to get on board. Delighted that John Barilaro has come out said, you know, he wants to build dams. We need the states to get on board with us, we've got the money there, we've got the, you know, the spirit to do it. Let's do it.
KIERAN GILBERT:
On a couple of other issues, the trespass- the farm trespass laws that you want passed. This is an area, of course, where the states would have the most jurisdiction, isn't it? In terms of prosecuting trespass.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Indeed. And New South Wales come out with very heavy penalties, very heavy fines yesterday, just yesterday. I commend Marshall for his foresight to do that and to push that through the Parliament.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Do you feel that there's still going to be enough scrutiny in terms of farm practices? With the crackdown of this …
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
[Interrupts] Well that's why- well that's why with our laws, we want to make sure that those people who are encouraging others to break the law, they're also prosecuted. We want to make sure that we use every capacity that we have to get those people to stop doing what they're doing, and if they do do it, to show flagrant disregard for the law, then we’ll penalise them too.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But what- you're talking about farmers who might be breaching animal standards…
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
[Interrupts] Well, such websites.
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Talks over] But what about- what about farmers in terms of animal standards. I know they're among the best in the world, but there are - and I would imagine this - farmers would accept …
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
[Talks over] And the full force of the law should be- should be used against them as well. And of course, we've got the RSPCA and other organisations always monitoring that situation. But our farmers …
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Interrupts] You don't need vigilantes?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, we don't need vigilantes, and we don't need people breaking the law, and we don't need people who are rubbishing our farmers all the time. Because our farmers have the best animal welfare standards in all of the world.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Yep. Well it's hard to disagree with that, to be honest, in a broad sense. But also the other thing that they- and I've heard this firsthand from a number of farmers is their support for action on climate change. Because they're on the frontline of that particular issue. Have you found that?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Absolutely, and they've been adapting to these sorts of circumstances, well before city people even realised it was an issue. Our farmers, they have to maximise every drop of water because they're paying for it, they're paying for the infrastructure even when they don't have an allocation. I spoke to John Bonetti in Griffith just the other day about this very topic. They're still paying for the infrastructure, they're still paying for every drop of water, even when they're not allocated. You know, it's a difficult situation for them. They're managing despite the drought; they're managing despite the fact that there are animal activists out there. They're managing despite the fact that some city people think they're environmental them- you know, environmental vandals. They’re getting on with the job of feeding Australia.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But, it's really interesting as the Prime Minister has said they are environmentalists, many of the farmers.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
They are.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But are they ahead of the National Party in some respects in terms of their view on climate change?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
No I think I think we're shoulder to shoulder with them. And, I mean, every National Party member has farming in our DNA. We understand the challenges that they face. We're certainly, by the very nature of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan, which is an environmental document, you know, we're living that with them each and every day. And we live in the communities, we face them every single day. So we're very aware of the situation and our policies are very much in train with that.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Well they certainly held up well at the election, didn’t they? You held all your seats. Just finally on the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence, recommendations when it comes to the exclusion order for foreign fighters. This will be a tricky situation for the likes of Andrew Hastie and other members of that committee, because the Government hasn't adopted all the recommendations. Labor simply wants those recommendations to be considered by the security agencies, and they're going to put legislation to Parliament along those lines. And you might have some of your own members like Andrew Hastie having to vote against recommendations that he's made as part of that committee.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Whatever we do as a Government will be tough. Whatever we do as a Government will be right. We need to make sure. And coming from Wagga Wagga, where we train our soldiers, what we don't want is when we send our soldiers overseas and have to fight against other Australians - who quite frankly are terrorists - and we want to make sure …
KIERAN GILBERT:
[Interrupts] You're making that prospect more likely, though with the exclusion order. Bring these individuals back and put them in jail.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, we're having exclusion order for two years, and we want to make sure that they face the full force of the law. We want to make sure that others who may think that this is the right thing to do, they're discouraged from doing so in the future.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But in terms of the exclusion order, one of the issues is that you might inadvertently keep these people offshore in theatres of conflict. They might face our soldiers.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
They could also be in detention. They could also be being held by other countries’ authorities. And the fact is, you know, do we want them back in Australia? If they have broken the law, we don't. What we don't want them to do is fighting against our own soldiers.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Are you comfortable, though, not accepting the advice of a Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
I think we've reached the right balance.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Deputy Prime Minister, thanks.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Thanks Kieran. Anytime.