TRANSCRIPT: ABC NEWS BREAKFAST INTERVIEW, 10 December 2020

7:08AM

E&OE

Subjects: Cashless Welfare Card, Industrial Relations, Coronavirus;

LISA MILLAR

And now more on the top story, the Cashless Debit Card and bringing in Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack who is in Parliament House. Good morning, thanks for joining us.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

It is a pleasure, Lisa.

LISA MILLAR

This vote last, late night into the evening, did not go the Government's way, did it?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

It didn't and it’s a little set back but certainly the Cashless Debit Card will be continued for at least two years in those communities, which have asked for it and that's the important thing. I appreciate it has been a trial and I appreciate that it will continue. Those communities have asked for it, it has made such a difference for those families in those communities where it has been used.

LISA MILLAR

It has been described as a racist card though by the critics who say that it does impact Indigenous Australians more than other Australians.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

There will always be critics for everything, but certainly, it has been rolled out and those communities have asked for it. What we've seen in those communities are families getting the essentials on the table at meal time. Money being spent on the things that matter in life, not on alcohol and other things and so that's what we want to see. We want to see those communities being able to be their best selves, for the parents in the communities, for jobs in those communities, they can take them and make sure they have a better standard of living and a better lifestyle for their families, that's what it's all about.

LISA MILLAR

Do you agree with Pauline Hanson's assessment that when you go on to welfare you lose your rights and therefore people who are on the cards lose their rights and as she said, “that's a reality, face the fact.”

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Not everybody gets on welfare because they want to. Not everybody ends up without a job because they want to and of course we’ve seen this year, we've seen in the COVID-19 recession, so many people forced on to welfare who would have never, ever, lost their job or hours of work and of course we're getting those people back into work.

LISA MILLAR

[Interrupts] But do you lose your rights on welfare? That's the point she was making.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

No, you don't lose your rights. We've always had that cushion, that safety net system. Australia is a great country, we've got the highest minimum wage in the world, we've got a welfare system that works and we've got the dignity of work prospect for those people that do end on welfare, there's the prospect now of getting a job. 54,000 jobs in regional Australia right now so I say to people if they have ended up on the welfare queues for the first time, look to regional Australia. The Regional Australia Institute has identified 54,000 jobs right now, not just in agriculture and mining, they’re in really well-paying jobs and people just need to have a look and perhaps take that leap of faith and go to a region. But this Cashless Debit Card, it is an important –

LISA MILLAR

One of your own Coalition colleagues couldn't even bring herself to vote for it in the Lower House, Bridget Archer? It does suggest there is a problem?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, for Bridget Archer, at least she is still in the Liberal Party and if she was in the Labor Party she would be expelled forever. That’s the difference, when you actually have a say, we are a broad church in the Liberal and National parties and people do sometimes, very much, you know, they have electorates which are vastly different from those in inner-city areas and I know Bridget represents a great area of Tasmania, it is a regional area and I have been there often and she is a great Member. I support her every step of the way. We are creating jobs there through Scottsdale Dam. We’re creating jobs through Safer Roads.

LISA MILLAR

[Interrupts] Could we look at IR then because this is about the hopes of the Government to continue job creation however it has immediately hit criticism from the unions and Labor. Is the Government going to have to drop this idea of allowing employers who are struggling through the pandemic to avoid the better-off-overall test? Because this is a thing the unions have said they have been blindsided by?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Sure, but the better-off-overall test was also – of course Paul Keating had some interesting comments to make about this as well –

LISA MILLAR

[Interrupts] Yes, but we are talking about your Government and your proposal here, so are you going to have to compromise?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

We are also talking about flexibility for businesses, businesses doing it tough, businesses that want to employ more, businesses that want to take advantage of the wage subsidy and the instant asset write-off and all the other measures we have put in place to boost businesses because it is businesses that will employ more Australians. It is business that will get Australians back to work. Yes, sure, Labor and the unions have come out and criticised us, it is confected outrage quite frankly. We have worked very well with the unions this year through COVID-19 and I commend Sally McManus and the unions and others for what they have done in working with us to get Australians back into work. To get the aviation sector where it needs to be –

LISA MILLAR

[Interrupts] That relationship seemed to stop. So that working together seemed to stop. If the unions are saying they got blindsided by a pretty significant element of this omnibus bill?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I know Christian Porter has worked very, very closely with the unions and he will continue to do that. But we need flexibility in IR and in the workplace such that businesses can have the confidence to employ people because that's what's going to create more jobs. And if you create more jobs, what you end up with is more productivity, more efficiency and ultimately higher wages.

LISA MILLAR

Deputy Prime Minister, there are experts in regards to hotel quarantine who are suggesting that it just doesn't make sense that the Federal Government isn't taking control of everything going on, given what we've seen in this case of the two people ending up from Sydney to Melbourne without going through quarantine and concerned –

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Thankfully they have tested negative.

LISA MILLAR

That is true.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

This is a State matter and that's why New South Wales Police are monitoring, of course, the quarantine arrangements in Sydney. That's why Victoria Police are doing the same in Victoria. So, yes, the Australian Border Force are doing their part at airports. We're playing our part Federally as we have provided hundreds of billions of assistance to help every situation through COVID but the states have to do their part too. I know this will be a matter of discussion at National Cabinet, meeting in person for the first time in Canberra tomorrow so I'm sure that Prime Minister Scott Morrison will be discussing these and other matters with the Premiers. They worked very well together this year. If you compare Australia's results on COVID compared to anywhere else in the world we have been exemplary and we thank Australians for making sure the death toll has remained where it is. Yes, it is going to be very sad for the 908 families without a loved one around the Christmas table this year but compare our record and our case numbers with anywhere else in the world and we have done very, very well.

LISA MILLAR

Michael McCormack, thanks for your time.

ENDS 7:1AM

Shane Manning