TRANSCRIPT: ABC RN INTERVIEW WITH FRAN KELLY, 18 March 2020

E&OE

Subjects: Coronavirus, Aviation Relief Package;

FRAN KELLY

$715 million lifeline from taxpayers amid fears that some of our carriers could collapse under the weight of this pandemic.  The relief package follows the decision by Qantas to slash 90% of its international flights and it is expected Virgin is about to ground its entire international fleet.  The industry support comes as Foreign Affairs issues an unprecedented message to Australians overseas to come home as soon as possible to avoid more flight cancellations and rapidly closing borders.  Michael McCormack is the Deputy Prime Minister and the Transport Minister.  Minister, welcome back to Breakfast.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Thank you, Fran

FRAN KELLY

Minister, before we get to the airlines, there’s fresh concerns this morning that your cabinet colleague, Peter Dutton, could have been infectious, after all, when he attended Cabinet last Tuesday.  Have you been tested for the virus?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

No, I haven’t but I haven’t shown any symptoms and the Chief Medical Officer, Dr Brendan Murphy, says that I and colleagues will be fine.

FRAN KELLY

There does seem to be this conflicting evidence coming out, though, that later that day Peter Dutton was at a Liberal fundraiser.  This is according to one of the newspapers.  A Sydney businessman who also attended now has coronavirus and he said the only contact he’s had with someone with the virus is Peter Dutton.  If this businessman’s been infected, isn’t there a chance that a cabinet ministers could be at risk?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Fran, I’m the National Party leader, I don’t generally attend Liberal Party fundraisers.

FRAN KELLY

No, no, I’m talking about the cabinet meeting that same day.  You were in that cabinet meeting.  Why not just get tested to be sure?  Is that a good idea?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Well, I haven’t shown any symptoms and with the number of testing kits and that at stretch point, I don’t want to go if I’m not showing any symptoms and I have been given the clear by Dr Brendan Murphy, I don’t want to go and take a test that could be well used by somebody who perhaps is showing symptoms and is needing it more than I do.

FRAN KELLY

Okay.  Back to the measures the Government’s going to announce.  I’m not sure, were you at the national cabinet meeting last night?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

No, I wasn’t, but I was certainly in the meetings previous to that.  That is just the Prime Minister and the Premiers and Chief Ministers.

FRAN KELLY

I understand.  The Prime Minister will today announce new measures on social distancing.  Can you give us any sense of where they’re going to be set?  Are they going to be set at 100 as has been previously suggested or lower than that?  Ten as in the United States?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

100 is pretty close to the mark and we need Australians to be their best selves. I will leave the Prime Minister to make the announcements he needs to make following his meeting last night with the Premiers and Chief Ministers and I know that they’ve been meeting very regularly, as have we on a daily basis to ensure that we put the right policies and the right measures in place to get Australians through this.  We will get through this.  It’s the greatest crisis this nation has faced since World War II but if Australians be their best selves we’ll get through the other side.

FRAN KELLY

Alright.  At the moment the Federal Government, through DFAT, is telling Australians to come back home as soon as possible or risk not being

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Wise advise.

FRAN KELLY

Yes. How long do you think, before all international travel will literally be impossible?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

It’s hard to say and it depends on how many people get infected and how quickly this spreads.  Of course, every day the number of infections rise.  But we’ve been, you know, we’ve been fortunate in one sense, and I don’t like to really use that word, so far, because we haven’t had or seen the number of cases that many other countries have.  We’ve got a very good health system here and we’ve actually stayed ahead of the curve because we’ve put the right bans in place ahead of time.

So we just need to ensure that we stop the panic buying, we need to make sure that we think of others but at the same time if people are showing symptoms – make sure they get the right tests but also if they are asked to self-isolate then do so.  Don’t break the rules. Just follow the procedures.

FRAN KELLY

Just staying with this travel advice from DFAT at the moment, though, is the Government considering following what Canada’s done and closing borders completely to people?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Well, we need Australians to come home.  DFAT has said that.  The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has urged –

FRAN KELLY

But what is the concern?  Why?  What are you concerned about?  That they will get trapped?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Well, because they may well end up not being able to be serviced by health systems overseas.  We’ve got a very good health system in place here and it’s necessary for Australians to come home.  DFAT has said that.  We want Australians to know their public health and safety is number one.  We want Australians to be safe and well and the best place for them to do that is here in Australia.

FRAN KELLY

Now that’s getting harder to do, obviously.  Qantas has announced grounding 90% of its international fleet.  Virgin, it’s possible it’s going to announce cancellation of all its international flights.  Jetstar won’t be flying Asian routes for at least three weeks.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

These are extraordinary times.

FRAN KELLY

How will people get home?  Will the Government help?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Well, and that’s the other thing, there is limited travel and of course Qantas did come onboard and have those mercy dashes to Wuhan, and, of course, with the Diamond Princess cruise ship off Japan.  So we were very lucky that Qantas did the right thing in that regard and, of course, we will  if the need arises we will look at doing similar such exercises in the future but we want Australians, whilst they can, to use that international travel to make their way home and to do it as quickly as they can.  Follow the DFAT advice, it’s wise advice.  Do it and make sure that you get home safe and sound.

FRAN KELLY

And the same applies for people here at the moment who need to get home to another country?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Indeed.  And that would be the best advice.

FRAN KELLY

The Government’s urgently drawing up its second economic support package.  We’re expecting that before the end of the week but one element of it will be the $715 million announced to support the airlines.  That’s covering a range of aviation fees and fuel excise that will be waived.  How is that going to help Qantas, Virgin and the smaller regional airlines?  How much is that going to alleviate the pain they’re in?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Well, it will already alleviate some of the pain that they’re suffering because $159 million of it has been backdated.  So it will be reimbursed to them from 1 February.

FRAN KELLY

So that’s a cash flow issue that the airlines asked for, was it?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Cash flow assistance.  Yes, and I asked the airlines, the various airline companies, everybody from Alan Joyce from Qantas and Paul Scurrah from Virgin, John Sharp from REX Airlines, indeed Chris Cabot from Wagga Wagga Air Centre, a charter company in regional Wagga Wagga doing great things for regional aviation.

It’s not just about the big airline companies.  Its right through general aviation.  It’s right through the sector, charter companies and the like.  So they will all benefit from it.  I asked them what they needed.  They came up with this package of measures and I took it to Cabinet and we’ve passed it.  So that’s an important thing.  The Expenditure Review Committee is addressing these issues as they arise.  But we’ll, of course, continue to talk with stakeholders in the aviation sector which contributes nearly $46 billion to our economy each year from the large airlines right through to the smaller charter companies but also the transport sector, shipping, you name it, we’ll keep talking to them.  Small business through James Pearson at ACCI.  We’ll continue to talk with them.  We’ll continue to take advice from them and we’ll continue to act on that advice.

FRAN KELLY

And have you asked something from the airlines in return?  Are you asking that no passengers be left out of pocket if they can’t fly, for instance?  What’s the quid pro quo?  Is there one?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Well, this is just off the bottom line.  You know, governments have to do these things from time to time when extraordinary events unfold and we’re in, as I said, one of the worst crises that our nation has ever faced as far as business is concerned and as far as the health outbreak is concerned.  And so health comes first, the economy, of course, is important.  We want businesses to stay open, we want people to stay in jobs but the health of Australians is first and foremost.

FRAN KELLY

Compared to other countries’ airlines are asking for in the US, they’re asking for a $50 billion bailout.  It’s not much, obviously, but –

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

It’s a good start, Fran.

FRAN KELLY

Is there more coming?  Qantas, we know, for instance, have spoken about the cost of trying to park their aircraft.  There’s 150 aircraft that are grounded.  Same would go for Virgin.  It costs thousands of dollars every day just to park an aircraft like that.  Will you consider giving them that help or allow them to park at RAAF bases or something like that?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

And of course, and we’ll discuss that with Defence, we’ll discuss that with airports.  We’ll make sure that we make the right decisions at the right time to help not only aviation but, indeed, all sectors across the transport industry.  One of the great heroes of our nation at the moment is our truck drivers.  They are delivering the fuel and the food right across Australia, particularly regional Australia.  I take my hat off to them, we’ll continue to discuss, as I have been, with our transport ministers, right across the nation.  I’ve been having weekly teleconferences with them but also with the transport sector and having weekly catch ups with them via teleconference and we’ll continue to address these issues.

FRAN KELLY

Minister, are you worried that we might be looking at a collapse of one of our two major airlines?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Well, I’m worried about the aviation industry in general and we will continue to support a strong two airline system in Australia and maintain the regulatory environment as we need to.

FRAN KELLY

Do you worry we’ll come out of this with less airlines?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

I’m hoping there are still going to be two major airlines at the end of this and I will continue to talk to Paul Scurrah from Virgin and Alan Joyce from Qantas, not on a daily basis but almost on an hourly basis.

FRAN KELLY

What about smaller airlines?  Regional Express, or REX, entered a trading halt yesterday.  Its Chief Operating Officer Neville Howell wrote to you.  REX doesn’t believe any regional carrier, quote, will be able to pull through this crisis without significant assistance and it wants the Government to guarantee new bank loans to keep them in the air.  Are you considering something like that?  Extending loans of –

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

I talk to Neville all the time.  I talk to John Sharp all the time.

FRAN KELLY

What are you offering them?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Well, what we’re offering them is a relief package of assistance today.  That’s what they asked for, that’s what we’ve provided.  I’ll continue to talk with them.  REX, well, their heart is in the country and they’ve made Wagga Wagga home.

FRAN KELLY

Sure.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

REX very much helped Wagga Wagga when Ansett collapsed back in 2001.  We’re very lucky Lim Kim Hai, a Singaporean businessman, came to the rescue of Wagga regional aviation.  We’ll continue to talk to them and address their issues.

FRAN KELLY

Minister, what about the staff?  We know Qantas’ shutdown, or parking these planes will affect around 30,000 staff.  Will you seek any guarantees from Qantas and Virgin that they will keep on staff while these planes are sitting idle?  The union wants that.  The union wants to help back the airlines to keep this staff on the payroll.  What’s the plan?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

And I know that everybody wants to keep their jobs and I know –

FRAN KELLY

We’re talking tens of thousands of jobs just in these two airlines.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Well Qantas has, of course, 30,000 employees.  A company like REX you’ve just mentioned, they’ve got more than 1,000 employees and we want them, as many of them to stay in their jobs.  I know Alan Joyce, Paul Scurrah and John Sharp are talking to their unions.  I know we’re addressing those issues.

FRAN KELLY

Is the Government going to buy in?  Is the Government going to help?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Well, we’re making more announcements and the fact is this is an unfolding issue each and every day some new development occurs and we’re addressing these issues usually before they occur but as I’ve said, we want as many Australians to keep in their jobs as possible.  We will get through this, Fran, and the one thing we shouldn’t do is panic.  Hysteria is not needed.  We need to stay calm.  We’ll keep as many Australians in their jobs as possible and I urge and encourage Australians to not only think of yourselves but also think of others.  We will get through this.

FRAN KELLY

Just on that note, and finally, as we’ve been talking, listeners have been texting in saying, Qantas posts major profits and has done for the last few years.  Is there an expectation from Government that companies that can post those sizable billion dollar profits should be able to tide their workers over at a time like this?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

And Qantas are a very responsible and good corporate citizen, always have been.  But it wasn’t that long ago that Qantas were in a bit of trouble as we will all recall.

FRAN KELLY

No, that’s right but the last few years they’ve been in the black.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

So they got through with good administration.  Well, they got through it with good administration. They’ve been very, very good and responsible in making those mercy dashes to Wuhan and Hubei province in China to rescue Australians.  Similarly with the Diamond Princess cruise ship which was stranded.  They went in and I take my hat off to their employees, for their crew to staff those planes to get Australians home.  They’ve been a good company, always will be.  They will do the right thing and responsible thing as will the Government.

FRAN KELLY

Michael McCormack, thanks very much for joining us.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK

Thanks, Fran.

FRAN KELLY

Michael McCormack is the Deputy Prime Minister and the Transport Minister.

Shane Manning