TRANSCRIPT: SUNDAY AGENDA, SKY NEWS INTERVIEW, 12 April 2020

E&OE

Subject: Coronavirus;

KIERAN GILBERT:

Deputy Prime Minister, Michael McCormack. Thanks very much for your time. It's such an unusual Easter, isn't it? We're telling people "Stay at home" and on occasions, "Don't even visit your extended family". This is a very unusual time.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Basically, don't venture outside unless you're in your own garden.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Yeah. So are you encouraged, though, by what we're seeing? The message is strong but the numbers have been encouraging in terms of the flattening of the curve.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

And the numbers are good because people are doing what they're told and we should thank every Australian for doing just that and we've kept our numbers to a reasonably low level. Yes, for the 50 or so families who didn't have their loved one around this long weekend, that's – that's tragic, that's sad and our condolences go out to them. But compared to other countries, the international experience is – Is very good for us and very bad for those countries who've lost hundreds, if not thousands, of people. And so we've been able to manage the mortality rate. We've been able to do it because people have maintained social distancing, have largely stayed at home and have done what Chief Medical Officer Dr Brendan Murphy asked them to do.

KIERAN GILBERT:

It's a good point, though, to remember those people who have lost loved ones.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Yeah.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Because even though the mortality rate is...

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

They'll be feeling it this weekend.

KIERAN GILBERT:

It will be a tough Easter.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Oh, it will and you know, for them they've lost their loved one. There's an empty place at the table and they'll be really feeling it. And they know that, you know, this has been one of those tragedies of this world-wide pandemic. They know that, for them, 2020 will be one of the saddest years they'll ever have to experience and our thoughts and prayers go out to them.

KIERAN GILBERT:

And is the risk now that we become complacent because the broader numbers have been so good for Australia? At the moment we're tracking below what South Korea has achieved.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Indeed and look, public sentiment changes so quickly and we see that happening; there's so much media, there's so much exposure on social media of these sorts of things. And I do hope people don't – I do hope they don't become complacent. I do hope they - they don't see our numbers tracking very well compared to what's being experienced elsewhere in the world and they don't think, "Well, why are we being locked up inside? Why isn't the football on? Why can't we go out to parties and do what we normally do? Why do we have to work at home? Why are we cooped up inside?" But the message is clear: this is not going to take weeks. This is going to take potentially months. We've put in place the economic measures to address all of those issues and let's just hope the health messages continue to get through.

KIERAN GILBERT:

As you mentioned, other nations are really struggling.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Yeah.

KIERAN GILBERT:

I guess if we get complacent, that's the warning, isn't it –

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Well, it could flip.

KIERAN GILBERT:

What's happening internationally?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Indeed, it could flip and our numbers could start to spark. And that's why it's been so important for people to stay home this Easter long weekend, instead of making that regional trip, that camping trip that they annually take or going to the beach. You know, in part, in large part, Australians have been very, very good in doing just that. They've heeded the warnings and the police are there for those who don't and they will continue to be this Easter long weekend - I appreciate there's still a couple of days to go - and into the future and the police message is also very clear. There's $1,000 fines for those in New South Wales. It's $1,652 in Victoria. So it's a fair whack in the hip pocket for not staying at home.

KIERAN GILBERT:

It's one of the problems you pointed to in that answer in relation to those travelling to the regions, whether it be the coast or inland like your home town of Wagga. The message is: please don't come, to the, you know, the grey nomads and others who maybe want to get out of the city because of the COVID-19.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Look and I have great empathy for our tourism operators and for our small towns which rely on the grey nomads. As you mentioned, I have great empathy for them because their business is so down and they've got through the drought, in part. They're coping with the bushfire relief and recovery efforts and they were smashed through that and now they've got the COVID-19 and so people are just staying away and the numbers just aren't there. But for those people who are still considering to sneak away for the couple of days left at Easter, please don't. Our hospitals in the regions, yes, they're geared up to serve and protect those people who are residents. They're not geared up to serve and protect a whole swathe of people who might come in and who might then infect regional residents. So please stay at home.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Yeah, okay, that's a very clear message. In terms of that economic support you said the government has put in place, one of the things is for agriculture exports, isn't it?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Yeah.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Cargo freight support.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

International Freight Mechanism it's called, $110 million. And the first lot of Tasmanian salmon went out to Taiwan late last week. And that's good, that's a really good initiative. I know Simon Birmingham, the Trade Minister, my office and Andrew Gee as well, went to a lot of work to, to organise that. It's going to go, obviously, to South East Asia, Africa, South America, wherever the case might be. Wherever we can explore and utilise new market opportunities, we will do so because trade equals jobs and more trade equals more jobs. We know that. And for those Geraldton crayfishers who lost their markets because of the Lunar New Year for the Chinese happened at that time when the first outbreak in Wuhan destroyed that market, there'll be opportunities for them as well.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Because I guess agriculture, if you think about – and I think some might say, well, why don't we keep those supplies in Australia, that food and so on, but we actually produce enough for 75 million people.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

75 million, three times our population here. And, look, our farmers have never been relied on as much as they are right now and I'm really pleased that recent rain has done a great service for our regions. And I was talking to Ken Keith, the Mayor of Parkes and he's delighted that his 2000 or so ewes will be able to lamb and those lambs will drop on to green grass rather than on the same colour as these lounges, which they had in recent years.

KIERAN GILBERT:

When you say they're pivotal, it's not just for the supplies, it's as an economic powerhouse in many respects. One of the industries like resources or manufacturing, it's one of those industries.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Well, it's a $60 million enterprise.

KIERAN GILBERT:

We need it to keep going, don't we?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Indeed. And we want to make it $100 million and we'll do that with rain and with – we've got the right know-how. The farmers have got the right risk management strategies in place and they've also got plenty of endeavour. Our farmers are the best in the world.

KIERAN GILBERT:

And they've got the social distancing.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

And they do have. They can go out in their wide green paddocks now and grow pasture and raise stock and sow crops to their hearts' content.

KIERAN GILBERT:

When it comes to the historic JobKeeper package, it's passed the Parliament over this last week, is it broad enough to save as many jobs as possible

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

It's broad enough to do that to get as many people through to the other side as we can. Six million Australians, that's around half the Australian workforce and we don't want to saddle ourselves with debt that - we already have put in place measures that are going to cost this country a lot for many, many years, but we don't want to saddle ourselves with debt which we just can't maintain. Look, we will continue to look at the situation. We'll continue to take advice from business, from key stakeholders, from, you know, people on the ground but we –

KIERAN GILBERT:

So if you needed to broaden it to big business, would you do that, because at the moment –

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Well, it is already there for big business over a billion dollars turnover, but they have to have lost 50 per cent of their turnover.

KIERAN GILBERT:

50 per cent as opposed to 30 per cent.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

As opposed to 30 per cent.

KIERAN GILBERT:

If you start seeing big lay-offs, could you basically [inaudible]?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Well, there is discretionary – there is the discretion that the Tax Office will use too for those businesses which are over a billion dollars turnover which may have lost, say, 45 per cent or for drought stricken businesses which had no hope of actually losing yet another 30 per cent based on what they didn't earn last year. So the Tax Office will use that discretionary power it has based in the legislation.

KIERAN GILBERT:

And seeing, you know, if there are big lay-offs in that sector then maybe you can broaden it out?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Well, look, indeed we will always look at everything and you know, we'll continue to - to roll out measures. We've got, you know, the capacity to do just that. But we also need to bunker down now. We also need to know that this is going to be for business, for workers. I empathise with those workers who've lost their jobs and for them, that is tough. For those businesses which have had to shut their doors we want, you know, them to know that the Government has their back. We want workers to know that the government, through JobKeeper and through JobSeeker and other initiatives like extending the visa holder, the temporary visa holders, visas for six months, you know those sort of initiatives make such a difference, particularly for rural and regional Australia.

KIERAN GILBERT:

One of the industries which we know has copped it in a big way has been the airlines. Are you open to a loan to Virgin Australia that they've indicated they need support potentially and that would - if they can't pay it back, the Government would take equity in that airline, is that a possibility?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

I'll continue to talk to Virgin's CEO, Paul Scurrah and others about – about the situation. We want a two-airline sector coming out of this but we've already put down a billion dollars on the table. On the 18th of March there was $715 million announced backdated to February 1, so that they could have their Air Services Australia fees waived, their fuel excise waived, their security screening waived and they'd already put $159 million in the coffers, in the bottom lines of Virgin, of Qantas and other airlines besides.

KIERAN GILBERT:

But you're not ruling out that additional support, if needed?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

We'll continue to look at the situation. I'll continue to talk with, you know, the key stakeholders, Qantas and Virgin. We need a two-airline aviation sector coming out of this. The fact is too, I appreciate we've already put a billion dollars down on the table and part of that is $298 million we announced specifically for regional aviation so that we could still get Regional Express to service their 54 destinations, for the other airlines to service the 138 destinations in regional New South Wales and South Australia and Queensland and right across the country. It's so important and no one knows how important aviation is more than regional communities.

KIERAN GILBERT:

There's the old adage in politics that you should never waste a crisis in terms of reform. Are you hopeful of ongoing reform out of this as we make the recovery?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

I think the National Cabinet has been a great process and Scott Morrison and the Premiers and the Chief Ministers have had some real delivery and they've cut through some of the - well, some of the bureaucracy and some of the red tape, I guess, that has been there –

KIERAN GILBERT:

Would you like that to stay as a framework?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Well, COAG has always been there but I think there has been a new spirited bipartisanship and that's also occurred with Greg Hunt and his Health Ministers. It's also occurred with myself and my Infrastructure and Transport Ministers, talking with, you know, Jacinta Allan and Mark Bailey, Labor Ministers for Victoria and Queensland respectively and making a whole heap of changes in a very decisive and timely fashion for the betterment of Australians generally. And I think Australians look at those processes and say that's actually not a bad outcome as they're actually getting on and doing things for the future of our nation rather than just arguing around the partisan edges.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Yeah, there's a sense of national purpose and unity.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

And there's a sense, I think, on the ground of national pride too. I think Australians look at what we've achieved as far as our COVID numbers – yes it's sad that more than 50 people have lost their lives, but look at that, compare it to international, you know, outcomes and people say: well, Australia is doing pretty well. Scott Morrison is leading by example.

KIERAN GILBERT:

And that National Cabinet that you referred to and that national purpose, can that then be retooled to say, okay, let's make proper reforms, tax reform. If we need to increase the GST, do it together. Is that something you'd be open to?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Well, I think the recovery out the other side is going to need that.

KIERAN GILBERT:

And would you be open to something like GST reform

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

I think the Expenditure –

KIERAN GILBERT:

Does it make sense to you?

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

The Expenditure Review Committee and the States will be having a large say in that. But, look, you know, we need to come out the other side strong. We've put in place now $320 billion of measures to make sure that we can cushion our economy as best we can. This is a health crisis to begin with. That's first and foremost. It's also an economic crisis. We're addressing it. We've done well so far on both, you know, health and the economy. Let's see what comes out the other side.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Because the recovery is going to be important in terms of paying back that debt.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

It is and that's why we're lucky we've got a Liberal Nationals government federally - and I'll be a little bit partisan now - to make sure that we monitor that because we know how to manage money and we'll do that very well.

KIERAN GILBERT:

But it would also need some big reform too.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

Indeed. Indeed. And that will need the help of Labor States, Labor Territories; that's going to need the help of the COAG process. It's going to need the help of the National Cabinet being its best self. It has so far. It's been very, very as one and this is about a Team Australia moment. As I said in the Parliament last week: one-in all-in. It was used as a footy analogy. One-in all-in used to be a bit of a – a bit of a box-up. But this is not a box-up. This is about Australians making sure that they all know that we're in this together and that we all know that we will come out the other side together, better and stronger.

KIERAN GILBERT:

Deputy PM, Michael McCormack, absolutely, we are all with you on that and we wish you a very happy Easter to you and your family.

MICHAEL MCCORMACK:

You too. Thanks, Kieran.

Shane Manning