TRANSCRIPT ABC RADIO NATIONAL INTERVIEW 17 April 2020
E&OE
Subjects: Government Support for Australia’s Domestic Aviation Network; Coronavirus tracing app;
HAMISH MACDONALD
This is Breakfast on Radio National, the Federal Government is unveiling a $165 million rescue package to keep Qantas and Virgin domestic air routes open amid the COVID-19 pandemic. The funding arrangement will underwrite flights between capital cities and around a dozen regional centres but the deal is only in place for eight-weeks, subject to review after that. Michael McCormack is the Deputy Prime Minister. He's on the line this morning. Good morning to you.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
Good morning, Hamish.
HAMISH MACDONALD
What does this arrangement allow Qantas and Virgin to do? What flights will be in place?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
Well, it underwrites the cost of the network and that includes all State and Territory capital cities, as you've mentioned and major regional centres. I can list them if you like; Albury, Alice Springs, Coffs Harbour, Dubbo, Kalgoorlie, Mildura, Port Lincoln, Rockhampton, Tamworth, Townsville and Wagga Wagga. Sounds like a race call. But it's going to be important to get people who, Hamish, maybe have come in from overseas and they've done their quarantine period and they may we well live in Perth but have been holed up in a hotel in Sydney, well, they can now have the ability to get home on a flight and not have to wait several more days before they board that flight. It also means that if they live in Kalgoorlie, they can fly to, of course, Perth and then to Kalgoorlie. It's going to be an important network, 220 flights a week for the next eight weeks, as you've mentioned, and that's going to help the airlines as well.
HAMISH MACDONALD
And given all of the restrictions in place across Australian communities, are you expecting these flights to actually be full or is this more about providing financial support to the airlines?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
A bit of both, Hamish. There will be social distancing requirements on the flights. So when you say full, well, hopefully the demand will be there so that every available seat is occupied but they will also take freight, they will also take important medical equipment and medicine and supplies to those regional centres and other capital cities, indeed, masks, personal protection equipment, that sort of thing. So I hope the demand is there and of course, with the eight-week review we'll have a look and see how the demand is and how many Australians are still coming in from overseas.
There are still a lot of people overseas, I know I've been working closely with the Foreign Affairs Minister Marise Payne, to get as many of those home as possible and we've got a number of flights coming in from a number of different destinations, seven in total and we're back ending those with subsidies, of course, to ensure that we get as many Australians home as possible.
HAMISH MACDONALD
Why this eight-week timeframe for this funding?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
Oh, because it's such a moving feast, Hamish. It's been a long time since – it seems an eternity since March 1 when Australia had its first fatality with the COVID-19 the Perth fellow, James Kwan, and we mourn for him as well as the other 62 people, who have lost their lives. It seems such a long time ago and of course, there's been so many moving parts over such a short period of time.
HAMISH MACDONALD
With respect, though, is this about buying some time for Virgin to look for investors?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
Not at all. This is important to get Australians home to where they need to be. There wasn't really the number of flights between capital cities and with States closing down their borders it was important to be able to get people –
HAMISH MACDONALD
This is not just about that, though, is it?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
If you live in Perth it's a long way across the Nullarbor in a hire car.
HAMISH MACDONALD
Let's be honest, though, Deputy Prime Minister, this is not just about getting people home, this is also about ensuring that Australia has two airlines, two domestic airlines on the other side of this, isn't it?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
I think everybody wants that, Hamish. I think, for the sake of competition, for the sake of those 10,000 Virgin employees, we want to see two airlines. I mean, look at Qantas. You know, they've got any number of employees as well. I mean aviation is a huge thing –
HAMISH MACDONALD
But Qantas is in a much better position than Virgin?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
– For the Australian economy. Yes, they are. Yes, they are. But let's not forget in 2013, Qantas’ books weren't all that flash either. They've worked very hard to make themselves a successful business and Alan Joyce has done a very, very good job and his board, to ensure that Qantas is a very good business. We want Virgin to be the same.
HAMISH MACDONALD
Virgin had been seeking a $1.4 billion Government loan. Why give it money rather than lend it money?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
I think there's a market solution for Virgin's issues and –
HAMISH MACDONALD
What's that?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
Well, let's see, there's talk, of course, that there are people who want to see and want to back and want to invest in Virgin. Let's see what transpires from that. I've been talking with Paul Scurrah every day, just as I have with Qantas and other airlines as well. We want a viable aviation industry. It's so important for Australia and no-one knows that better than those people who live in regional Australia because without it it's a problem.
HAMISH MACDONALD
When you say Virgin does have market options, I mean, it's part-owners overseas are clearly not willing to put more money in.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
They've got their own issues. You know, you've got Singapore and you've got Etihad and others. They've got their own issues as well. I mean this isn't just an aviation crisis for Australia, it's worldwide.
HAMISH MACDONALD
What are the market options available to Virgin, as you understand it?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
Well, there are commercial-in-confidence negotiations, I'm sure, taking place. I mean people who read the media and who read the newspapers today would have seen that. Let's see how that plays out. Let's make sure that for our aviation sector, which we've already put more than $1 billion on the table, we've waived lots of fees, we've subsidised these routes for domestic flights, for international flights, indeed for regional flights. We've made sure that for those regional airlines – we've underwritten those. We've put more than $1 billion on the table. We want aviation to be its best self. It's now up to the airlines as well and, of course, talks about investment and backing airlines, that will continue, I'm sure, over the next hours and days.
HAMISH MACDONALD
Can I just help our listeners try to understand what the principle is, though? If some of these companies, like Virgin, were asking for a loan, there's obviously been some discussion about part-nationalisation as an option whereby once the company returns to a stronger position, the public gets its money back, as it were. Why give these airlines money rather than essentially lend it to them?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
Well, what we don't want to do is nationalise our airlines either. We want there to be a market solution for this and I'm sure taxpayers want value for dollar, too. We've already invested more than $320 billion into tackling the COVID crisis and the important thing is it's a health pandemic and we've certainly made sure that compared to other countries, we've done very well in that regard.
HAMISH MACDONALD
Sure.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
It's an economic problem, of course and we've addressed that with JobKeeper, with JobSeeker, with all the other announcements of more than $1 billion for our aviation industry. We want Virgin to come out the other side, as strong as they can. Of course, we want Qantas to be in the air as well and to be continuing the success that they've had over the past six or seven years.
HAMISH MACDONALD
Deputy Prime Minister, I need to ask you about these apps that the Government is talking about rolling out so that we can return to some sense of normal life going out into public spaces. There are clearly privacy concerns held by the Government here. How comfortable are you asking the Australian public to put these apps on our phones to allow the sorts of tracking that perhaps many of us would have been terrified of just weeks ago?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
I think a lot has changed and I think a lot of people accept the fact that they look at the alarming reports coming in from overseas, they see how many people are dying, they see how many people are – I mean those temporary hospitals being set up in Central Park in New York and the number of deaths there – it is an absolute tragedy. The millions of people on unemployment queues around the world.
That hasn't happened in Australia and of course, this will be voluntary. We are asking people to download apps. I would encourage people to download the Government's coronavirus app. It's a very good app, it provides all the information that people need. But if there's going to be a tracing app and there's one being developed at the moment, that people have been asked to wear, and they wish to do that, that may well save their life. I'd far sooner have an app on my phone that lets out a ping if I've been near someone with coronavirus, that I've been near someone who has just come in from overseas, to be able to have that test done. I'd much sooner have that done to me than to be three months down the track and lying in a palliative care bed wondering why I hadn't done it.
HAMISH MACDONALD
Michael McCormack, thank you very much indeed.
MICHAEL MCCORMACK
Thanks, Hamish. All the best.