TRANSCRIPT: ABC RADIO NATIONAL BREAKFAST INTERVIEW, 10 July 2020

E&OE

Subjects: State Borders, JobKeeper, Trade Relations with China;

HAMISH MACDONALD

Michael McCormack is the Deputy Prime Minister, the Minister for infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development as well. Good morning, welcome to breakfast.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Good morning, Hamish.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Is it simply too much of a blunt instrument, closing the borders, taking these measures?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, it has had a big effect on regional Australia and certainly those transport operators, I feel for them. Look, the progress yesterday across the border was far more fluid than it was the day before, it is a moving feast, pardon the pun. We're trying to get the situation resolved through the state authorities. This is obviously organised and co-ordinated by the States. National Cabinet meets today, I'm sure there'll be a lot more said around that table, around that telepresence when the Prime Minister meets the Premiers and the Chief Ministers and we need to resolve it because it's not just transport operators, it's also farmers. Say Murrabit, the only bridge wide enough for farm equipment to get over the river there, the problem that we've got there is that the bridge is gated and closed and farmers are having to go up to either Echuca 108-kilometres away or Robinvale which is 183-kilometres away.

HAMISH MACDONALD

So what are you able to do to try and improve this situation because there's clearly a need for co-ordination arrangements?  A lot of people have applied, businesses have applied for these permits to move across the borders. But there is obviously some very significant choke points that have been created overnight.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, there are. The Electorate of Mallee, represented so well by Anne Webster, has 11 bridges – six were closed. Now four are of major concern. We're working through those, we're trying to get them policed so that there is somebody, a presence on the bridge, so that common sense can prevail. That people with permits and people with reasons to be on either side of the river, either side of the Murray, can traverse that border clearly and easily and efficiently without having to drive an hour or so up the river or down the river.

HAMISH MACDONALD

You live in Wagga Wagga, part of the Riverina in New South Wales, do you support the border closure?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

The Premier has done it for a good reason and the epidemiology has proven that something needed to happen. She has acted in her State's best interests. I understand that. I also understand the fact that this has, very much, started out as a Melbourne issue. But what we don't want to see is a second wave, a second outbreak. It would have been good if we had have just locked down Melbourne. But that was a decision taken obviously, at a state level, we'll continue to work through it. I understand how much regional Victoria is hurting. We want to be there for Victorians. The Prime Minister has said over and over, that we want to return the economy as quickly as we can to where it needs to be. These situations don't help but we don't need a second wave.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Just to clarify, though. You said you understand the decision by the New South Wales Premier, do you support it?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I support a more fluid cross-over of the river. And I think that really needs to happen. And we need to do a lot more work today and in the next few hours to make sure that happens.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Are you talking directly with the New South Wales Premier? Is this something that's going to be discussed at National Cabinet –

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I'm sure it'll be discussed at National Cabinet. I've been speaking to obviously the New South Wales Road Ministers and obviously, Jacinta Allan and Melissa Horne in Victoria to get the best possible access and of course, Anna Speedie the Wodonga Mayor, Kevin Mack the Albury Mayor, who are frustrated. I understand that, I've been speaking to them on a daily basis. They want the best for their economies obviously and we were so close to getting the economy back to where it was. We know that the businesses were starting to reopen. People were starting to see customers back particularly in regional Victoria and of course now, it's all gone to custard.

HAMISH MACDONALD

The current lockdown is predicted to cost the national economy – just the Melbourne lock-down – a billion dollars a week. Business confidence is at a 50-year low, unemployment is predicted to spike to 9%. We're about to speak with Jim Chalmers, the Shadow Treasurer, who has some numbers around the costs of ending JobKeeper as planned in September. Do you recognise that there is significant new problems that will arise if indeed, the JobKeeper ends as planned.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, JobKeeper was only ever a temporary arrangement. We will be having more to say about JobKeeper and I know the Treasurer Josh Frydenberg and the Finance Minister Mathias Cormann will be having more to say later this month about provisions going forward, but let's hope that Jim Chalmers can be a little bit more like Tanya Plibersek, less political, as he's been in the recent past about these measures. I saw Tanya on television last night and she said that this is a Team Australia moment – not in so many words – but we need to understand that this has been a situation where we have addressed this global pandemic.

HAMISH MACDONALD

So, I just want to draw you to the substance of the question rather than the politics. I think our audience clearly is interested in what is going to happen post-September. What can you say, particularly to those businesses in Victoria, we're talking about very significant numbers of people on JobKeeper, at the moment you haven't given an indication of what happens next or that they will be looked after?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

They will be looked after of course, the Government's done that the whole way through. We've done very well on the health side, we have the world’s best statistics, if you could describe it as that. Of course we mourn for those one hundred and six deaths, of course their families have who’ve lost loved ones but what we will do of course, is make sure that the economy is cushioned as best it can. The Finance Minister and Treasurer will be having more to say on that we won’t desert our Australians in their moment of need and we want to make sure that we help the economy as best we can. This is a situation where, of course, the second wave has been. What we don't want to see is the number of cases spiking out of control the number of deaths getting to such a state whereas where our medical facilities just can't sustain it. We've done so well so far.

HAMISH MACDONALD

The Chinese Government has reacted strongly to Australia's decision to suspend the extradition treaty with Hong Kong. China's criticising the move as gross interference in its domestic affairs. Was it?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

We've had a great relationship with Hong Kong and China for so many years and we will continue to do that, we've reached out, yes. We're giving people choice. That's important. We want to obviously continue our relations, our trade relations with China, it's our largest trading partner $150 billion or so of trade. We know how important that is for our farmers, for our resources industry and we will continue to do that. But of course –

HAMISH MACDONALD

Is it a bit optimistic to expect there is not going to be any repercussions from some of the steps that you're taking currently in relation to trade?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I say again, it's giving people choice. I'm sure that China understands that. I'm sure that people in Hong Kong who want to come to Australia and want to avail themselves of those visa arrangements. You know, we would agree that it is a good move for Hong Kong. If you want to come to regional Australia, there are jobs, there are great opportunities awaiting for them.

HAMISH MACDONALD

With respect, Deputy Prime Minister, I don’t think China does understand it in that way. It's describing this move as gross interference in its domestic affairs.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, we've got a great relationship with China that will continue. And what we want to make sure is that our trade continues with China, our two-way trade. China needs Australia as much as Australia needs China and I'm sure those good relations will continue.

HAMISH MACDONALD

A great relationship? On what grounds do you say that?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

$149.7 billion of trade, China understands that we have the best resources, they understand that our food is so fresh and clean. As the number of people in that middle class continues to grow and prosper, they have begun to look to Australia for our fresh, clean produce.

HAMISH MACDONALD

What about the increasingly frosty rhetoric? What about the imposition of tariffs on barley, are you just ignoring the reality of what's happening here?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Absolutely not and of course, we're working through that on a diplomatic level, of course, all the time. Because, you know, if you're a barley grower in South Australia, in Western Australia, particularly where China does get its barley from and you’re making that decision as to what you grow at the moment or making that decision as to where you send your barley, we want to make sure that we've got good trade relations with China. Yes, there is always going to be hiccups and yes, understanding that at the moment that times are a little bit difficult. We will work through those in the proper way. Simon Birmingham is continuing to work as you would expect in a situation with China to make sure that we get the best for our farmers, for our miners.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Do you genuinely expect Australians listening this morning to believe that there's nothing unusual about the state of the Australia-China relationship right now, that this is just one of the usual bumps in the road?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, I do understand that, it's a bit fractious at the moment. We'll work through it as you'd imagine that a good, sensible, practical, considered government would.

HAMISH MACDONALD

Michael McCormack, thank you very much.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Thanks, Hamish.

Shane Manning