TRANSCRIPT: INTERVIEW WITH LEON DELANEY, 2CC CANBERRA RADIO, 10 July 2020

E&OE

Subjects: State Border Closures, Coronavirus, JobKeeper, Eden-Monaro By-election;

LEON DELANEY

Joining me now, Federal Leader of the Nationals and Deputy Prime Minister, Michael McCormack.

Good afternoon.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Good afternoon, Leon.

LEON DELANEY

Thanks for joining us once again. How can we have more fluid crossings when the whole point of the exercise is to make sure people don't cross when they shouldn't?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, what the fluidity means is that we have those crossings manned, so instead of putting up a steel or cement girder or indeed locking the gates, as is the case with some of those smaller country communities. We have people actually at the bridge so that they can check that the people wanting to travel from Victoria to New South Wales or vice versa, that they've got a valid reason to do so. Now, you've got a lot of farmers at Murrabit and several other centres in country Victoria down on the river and the border there with New South Wales, who own property on both sides of the river, separated just by the Murray, who then have to transport and haul their tractors with the implements behind, in some cases 183-kilometres up or down stream. Well, that's just ridiculous because there's a day's work. They can only travel about 50-kilometres now at the best of times and they're forced to, rather than go over the wide bridge that exists, it's blocked off. And so it makes sense that, you know, we've got enough people. Just send them there. Man the bridge. If they have a valid reason to cross, then they should be able to do so.

LEON DELANEY

Well, obviously, these measures were implemented very rapidly by necessity. I suppose it's only to be expected that there might be one or two hiccups along the way. Are you confident that you can get sufficient personnel there to man these crossings that you believe are so crucial?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, the good news is that I spoke to Andrew Constance, as I do every week about these particular issues. And from the looks of things, he's actually resolved it. And I've been able to tell not only the members down there – Anne Webster, the Member for Mallee, and Damian Drum, the Member for Nicholls and others besides – that, the all-important farmers for whom this is a concern. It looks as though the barriers will be moved and that the bridges will be manned and so that for those people with a valid reason to cross over, they will be able to do so, if not tomorrow, then certainly by Monday.

LEON DELANEY

So, problem solved, although not immediately.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Not immediately, but at least there's progress. They can get across the bridge.

LEON DELANEY

Yes, it will certainly be a great relief for the people that have been directly affected like that. It is difficult to close a border like New South Wales and Victoria though, isn't it? There are so many border communities, the big one obviously being Albury and Wodonga. And there are so many unique challenges in allowing those communities to function as they normally would, while at the same time making sure we contain the spread of COVID-19. It's a unique challenge, isn't it?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Look, it's a massive community, I mean Albury-Wodonga combined, it's nearly 100,000 people just living in that area alone. So many people from Wodonga working in Albury and vice versa. And so I know the Mayors, Kevin Mack, he was on television earlier today from Albury and of course, Anna Speedie, the Wodonga Mayor. I've been speaking to them regularly about these issues. Of course, the states have put these rules into place. But as the Federal Transport Minister, it was actually good to have a catch up with Jacinta Allan, with Andrew Constance today, from both sides of the river, to be able to talk to them about getting the issues resolved that are such a choke point, particularly as you say, for Albury-Wodonga, but the other 54 river crossings as well.

LEON DELANEY

The outbreak that we've seen in Melbourne, this is a warning, isn't it, to the rest of us, not to become complacent?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

It's just so unnecessary. And, you know, I know there are probably varying reasons as to how it happened and why it happened but just so unnecessary, so selfish –

LEON DELANEY

Well, when you say it's unnecessary, who do you blame?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, we all know that those security guards who've been relieved of their duties – and thank goodness for that. We know that they just weren't doing the role that they were supposed to be doing. But certainly we have to get beyond this complacency. We have to make sure that if we're in quarantine, we stay in quarantine. If we are asked to stay at home, we stay at home. If we are asked to social distance, we do that. Not for just our sakes, but for all those other people in the community particularly the elderly, who are most vulnerable. And I know, for many people who live in Melbourne – my daughter being one of them – I mean, we're desperately worried now –

LEON DELANEY

Indeed.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Look at today, 280-odd cases. I mean, it shouldn't have happened. It didn't need to happen. Now that it has happened, I know the Federal Government is offering every bit of support, both medically and militarily, whatever's needed Victoria will get it. I know Dan Andrews was up today talking through the situation and making sure that people remain calm and making sure that people do the right thing. That's the necessity.

LEON DELANEY

Indeed, but of course, a lot of people have actually laid the blame at the feet of Daniel Andrews and his Government because it was his Government that decided to engage those security guards in the first place rather than taking –

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Yes, but he wasn't wearing a security guard uniform. And I appreciate that, there's always going to be fingers pointed at politicians. And, you know, I'm going to be a little bit bipartisan here. I mean, it's not just up to the Premier. It's up to each and every person to do what they've been asked to do for the health outcomes of not just their own communities, not just their own families, but indeed the nation. Now, Dan Andrews can only ask people to do the right thing. And yes, those security guards were employed to do the right thing and they didn't. And they need to be held largely accountable for this outbreak. There are other reasons too, I appreciate that. It's not just the security guards – there were other reasons for it. But having had this second wave, this second outbreak, we now need to ensure that we get through this and we come out the other side.

LEON DELANEY

But it's not just the security guards. There's been a lot criticisms of the Victorian Government for how they've approached this crisis and how it's been managed, including the management of locking down those public housing towers, leaving people in the lurch with all sorts of embarrassing mix-ups about whether or not they were getting food and medicines delivered to them. It was a bit of a mess.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Yes, look, I don't deny that but I'm not going to be joining the queue with the baseball bats to belt up on the Government. What we need to do now is make sure that we're in this mess, let's get out of it.

LEON DELANEY

So, you don't want to belt up the Labor Government in Victoria meanwhile, the Labor Opposition is belting up the Federal Government about JobKeeper.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, that's their business. And if they don't want to play in the Team Australia moment, well, I'll leave that to Jim Chalmers and the Anthony Albanese. But what we need to do is work together co-operatively and collaboratively to get through this situation. What we need to do is make sure that we provide the necessary assistance and the Commonwealth stands ready and is actually doing that, both at the border and in Melbourne. And I know Greg Hunt has done a magnificent job. I know Paul Kelly has stepped up to the plate and doing the job as the Deputy Chief Medical Officer. I saw him today on the television speaking very calmly, very measuredly. And, you know, we'll take a considered approach to this. JobKeeper, we will continue to look after Australians and look after businesses, look after workers, as we've done right through this crisis. And if you compare what we've done, Leon, with what's happened elsewhere overseas –

LEON DELANEY

Absolutely! Look, JobKeeper has been a tremendous success. It's an outstanding program. It has done the job that it has needed to do. But the job is not over yet. And, of course, it's not just the Labor Opposition. It's a lot of people who are worried about what's going to happen in September, or perhaps even before that, because we already saw the changes made in the childcare sector when people were not expecting them to be made that soon. So there is legitimate concern about what's going to happen. Now, I know that you and your colleagues have promised there will be ongoing support in some form, but the uncertainty is really scaring people.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I appreciate that and I know that Josh Frydenberg, the Treasurer and Mathias Cormann, the Finance Minister, will be making a full statement about what needs to be done, where we are. And it has been changing on a daily basis too. Some businesses have come back online, opened their doors, customers have returned. And so many of those areas in COVID-free parts of the country, they just want to see capital cities, in particular, be their best-selves so that we can once again ease those border restrictions. We can open the pathway and the gateway for people to travel about the country, as they should be able to. Yes, there have been a few hiccups along the way. Yes, the Government will continue to support people, workers, businesses and we'll get through this. But now is not the time for throwing and slinging mud at politicians of any persuasion. I'm not going to do it. I just want the Victorian Government to know that the Commonwealth will do whatever it can to help them through this crisis.

LEON DELANEY

On the topic of JobKeeper, have you noticed that former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has said that the JobKeeper lifeline is at risk of being used to prop up businesses that have no future? Do you agree with his comments or do you subscribe to the idea that under the present circumstances, even businesses that are no longer going to be viable into the future still need to be propped up because there's nothing there to take their place?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Having run a small business for eight years, I know how difficult it is. And small business people, they take the risks. They back themselves. Quite often, they go without a wage. They don't know what the future holds. If they're on JobKeeper, they are eligible for it, then good luck to them. We want to make sure that as many businesses get through this as possible, because they are the backbone of the economy. Sounds glib, sounds trite, but it is the truth. Small business is the backbone of the economy. We want to make sure that that lifeline to those businesses and to their future success is there. And that's what we're doing.

LEON DELANEY

And finally, do you have a message of welcome for Kristy McBain to the Federal Parliament?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I did. I phoned her on Sunday night, actually. She rang me back on Monday. She probably was quite overwhelmed by Sunday night. I think having stood out at the polling booth, as I did all day on Saturday, it was rather cold at Tumbarumba when I finished there at six o'clock on Saturday night. And look, good luck to her. And you know, she's earned her place. She's only won by it by .5% but you only need to win a grand final by one point, don’t you?

LEON DELANEY

That's right indeed and the margin is extremely narrow –

MICHAEL McCORMACK

But I said to her that I stand ready to help her and help those residents of Eden-Monaro who've been hard hit by drought, particularly hard hit by bushfires in Adelong and elsewhere, Tumbarumba, Batlow – which is not far from my area. And also obviously through COVID-19. Look, good luck to her. I congratulated her on her win and I look forward to her taking her part in the Federal Parliament.

LEON DELANEY

And that being the case, with Kristy McBain winning that by-election, does that mean now that you are prepared to support a run in 2022 by John Barilaro?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, if John Barilaro wants to put his hand up, well, good luck to him. And you know, I supported his run this year, albeit very briefly.

LEON DELANEY

It's not quite what he said, was it? In fact, didn't he say something about you not supporting him?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Look, I couldn't have been more supportive and honestly, if he wants to run in 2022, whenever the next election's going to be, well, good luck to him. And you know, we need more National Party people in the Parliament for that regional representation, of course. I'm a proud and fiercely proud National Party member and anything I can do to get more representatives in our party in the Federal Parliament, I think that would be a good thing. And if he wants to run, I say to him put your hand up. Put your name on that ballot paper and let's go.

LEON DELANEY

Marvellous. Thanks very much for your time today.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Any time at all, Leon.

LEON DELANEY

Thank you very much. Michael McCormack, the Deputy Prime Minister and Federal Leader of the Nationals.

Shane Manning