TRANSCRIPT: INTERVIEW WITH CHRIS SMITH – 4BC, 12 JANUARY 2021
E&OE
Subjects: Coronavirus Border closures; Amnesty International condemnation on comments on US protests.
CHRIS SMITH
As I mentioned a little earlier, Prime Minister Scott Morrison is on a break. Nationals Leader, Michael McCormack is in the job, filling his shoes. He's on a tour of regional Australia, speaking with locals and business owners to hear first-hand what the government can do to help with the economic recovery. The Acting Prime Minister joins me on the line from Townsville. Good morning, Michael.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Good morning, Chris.
CHRIS SMITH
Regional towns. I know that there is a lot of support going through with lots of people travelling intrastate at the moment. So they're visiting weekends, there are also a lot of grey nomads getting out to places they haven't been before. But there have been so many interruptions in terms of borders, etc. How are they really doing?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, I spoke to Kevin Mack, the Albury Mayor, this morning and he was concerned about the decision made by the Victorian Government, brought down very hastily, about the new supposed traffic light system for border control and for people movement and these sorts of things, when they are brought down very hastily have an impact. Now I appreciate that Kevin's on the New South Wales side of the border and Dan Andrews, of course, the Victorian Premier. So I get that.
But, you know, the Albury-Wodonga area, the wonderful twin cities, one community they call it, they want to have that sort of flow of people through. They are so heavily impacted when it comes to these sorts of things. And, you know, you look at some of these regional communities, Chris, and I know you speak to a lot of people from regional Australia often on your various shows and you know, they haven't had a COVID case for many months, if at all, and yet they've still been very, very heavily impacted by decisions made in far off capital cities.
CHRIS SMITH
Well, they've been discriminated against in so many ways, haven't they?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, you look at what happened in Mildura with Anne Webster and many of her people. They look to South Australia for their health and medical outcomes and of course, they weren't able to get South Australian medical personnel across to work and you know, it was such an impact on them. And even Anne now and Damian Drum, my colleagues in Victoria, are finding it difficult to get New South Wales fruit growers across. So it just – it has such an impact on everybody. And I'm here in Townsville, as you mentioned, and you know it's a long way, a long, long way from Brisbane. But they then are impacted by tourism outcomes that, you know, they thought that this was going to be the season they needed and, of course, there's not as many people as would normally be here experiencing the tropical delights that is the far north of Queensland.
CHRIS SMITH
You have been condemned by Amnesty International for comparing the Black Lives Matter protests to last week's riot at the Capitol Building. They need to pull their heads in, don't they?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Oh, there's a lot of feigned indignation. A lot of people get so hurt and upset and, you know, if I've affected their precious feelings, well, I'm sorry –
CHRIS SMITH
(Laughs)
MICHAEL McCORMACK
– That they are so, you know, visibly upset by it. But, seriously? I mean, look, I'm concentrating mainly on rebuilding the economy and the health outcomes of Australians, not worrying about what is sort of a bit of a circus in America. But, look, you know, any violence, any form of violence, I would have thought that Amnesty International would have deplored and said that wasn't satisfactory and –
CHRIS SMITH
It depends whether Amnesty think that it's in their portfolio or not, doesn't it?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, violence is violence. It doesn't become more or less based on the agenda of people committing the violence. And you know, whether it's Capitol Hill or whether it was Black Lives Matter, or whatever the case might have been, it was – it involved things getting out of control and sadly, people losing their lives. You know, that's not acceptable. I'm sorry, it's just not. And if Amnesty International can't – can't cop that, well too bad.
CHRIS SMITH
There's a push from 50 federal MPs, including Technology Minister Karen Andrews, to rein in social media companies like Twitter and you know, you've got this double standard where they can ban you as President Donald Trump but let – use its post, you know, ultra-offensive comments under the hashtag "Hang Mike Pence", and we can come up with any number of examples. Once you start censoring and once you start banning people, you can't possibly be fair because it's such a subjective area.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
True, but I suppose if you look at it in one sense – I mean, the newspapers editors have always been – have always exercised a little bit of subjectivity when it came to what they were going to print. And you honestly can put a lot of things on social media platforms you would never have been able to print in a newspaper.
CHRIS SMITH
No.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
And you still can't. But, look, I'm not against – I'm not in favour of censorship I mean, because, you know, we've got 102,000 names on the War Memorial who've died in world wars and other conflicts so that we can have a free and democratic country and by and large, we have, and that's a good thing. So I think it's a little bit rich for those anonymous Twitter people who troll – you know, accounts and write some dreadful things they would never say to someone's face and yet they're the ones calling for Donald Trump to be censored. I mean, seriously? Give us a break.
CHRIS SMITH
Yeah, and –
MICHAEL McCORMACK
And what really – what really sticks to my craw is that you've got that photo of that soldier, supposedly an Australian digger, who is holding a child and looking to do harm to that child and yet Twitter has not taken that photo down. Now, that is wrong.
CHRIS SMITH
Yeah.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
If they are going to ban Donald Trump, if they are going to ban a democratically-elected president of the United States of America, then why haven't they moved to take that photo down, which is abhorrent, which is vile and obscene and wrong in every regard and respect.
CHRIS SMITH
Yeah, you either have an open slather platform where we act as adults and determine ourselves what we believe and what we don't believe, and what we read and what we don't read, or you have controls similar to the controls on mainstream media. Now, they would say: well, hang on a minute, we're not going to exist because I'm not going to take the personal legal responsibility for everyone who tweets or posts on platforms. But there's another way to go about it. You could say: well, if you enter my platform, I want to know exactly who you are and you personally then take responsibility for what you post. There's an idea in a framework that I think would work.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
That is a good idea. And I know that we've spent and heavily invested in having an eSafety Commissioner. I know Nola Marino has done an enormous amount of work. But it also starts with parents too.
CHRIS SMITH
True.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
You know, I think parents need to follow what their kids say and do online. Bullying has to stop. I know, like I said, Nola has done an amazing job in making sure that this is front and centre of what the government is doing in this regard. And I would urge any Australian parents listening to make sure they know what their kids are up to online.
CHRIS SMITH
Yeah, very true. I'll let you go. Enjoy your day. Thank you very much.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Good on you, Chris.
CHRIS SMITH
All right. Nationals leader, Acting Prime Minister.