TRANSCRIPT TELEVISION INTERVIEW – ABC NEWS BREAKFAST 12 JANUARY 2021
E&OE
Subjects: US protests; social media policies; JobKeeper; border closures; COVID policies.
GEORGIE TUNNY
The Acting Prime Minister now has drawn the attention of human rights groups for comparing last week’s assault by Trump supporters on the US Capitol building to Black Lives Matter protests. Michael McCormack has also questioned whether banning Donald Trump from platforms like Twitter is a good idea and the Acting PM joins us now from Townsville. Mr McCormack, good morning to you.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Good morning to you, too.
GEORGIE TUNNY
Do you stand by those comments that you made, comparing the assault on the Capitol last week with the Black Lives Matter protests? Just how are they similar?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, any form of violence, any form of protest that ends in death and destruction is abhorred. And you know, I know this is very difficult for the United States as it goes through great change, but you know any form of protest, whether it’s a protest over racial riots or, indeed, what we’ve seen on Capitol Hill in recent days, is condemned and is abhorred.
GEORGIE TUNNY
Well, indeed, you are talking about violence there, but what we do have with the Black Lives Matter protests from last year, those groups were protesting the death of George Floyd and then what we saw last week with, though, the storming of the Capitol building, those people were surely just trying to impede the democratic process. So how are they the same?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, it involves violence, it involves destruction of property, it involves deaths of people. And any violence of that form is condemned.
GEORGIE TUNNY
But you’ve received criticism from human rights groups, firstly, do you understand where they’re coming from and what’s your response to it?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, I understand why these protests happened. And let’s face it, in Australia we’ve gone to two world wars so that people can speak freely, so that they can have that democratic right of free speech. And of course, we have protests here in Australia. But we don’t want to see the level of violence, the level of wilful destruction to property that we’ve seen elsewhere and, as I say again, that level of violence, those sorts of protests that descend into that violence and ultimately the death of people is, of course, condemned.
GEORGIE TUNNY
Staying with one of the major topics that we’ve been talking about this week, is it your belief that censorship may be more harmful than the spreading of misinformation?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, I’m not in favour of censorship. I never have been. I’m a former newspaper editor and, of course, journalists know that they have the right to free speech, as 102,000 names on the War Memorial in Canberra etched into that bronze who fought so that we could have a democratic country, so that we could speak freely. And its every free-born person’s right to be able to uphold that freedom of speech. And I do stick by that.
But, you know, then when you see a company – and let’s face it, it’s up to them to make the decisions based on their company and what they feel is right – but to take a President’s Twitter feed down whilst at the same time allowing a soldier, an Aussie Digger no less, an image, a fake image, to remain on there of a soldier, an Australian soldier, potentially and looking like he’s doing harm to a child, I mean really? That’s not right.
GEORGIE TUNNY
But surely there must be some form of counsel or rebuff for the spreading of misinformation as well after what we saw on the Capitol last week and what happened? And just overnight your colleague Craig Kelly, he’s shared information about mandatory masks that is at odds with the health advice. What do you think is the process moving forward there?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Sure, but who decides who’s going to be taken down? I mean, you’re a journalist, you’re a news presenter. Is it right that somebody then decides who gets taken down and who gets left up? I mean, imagine being on that little jury. I wouldn’t want to be on that jury. I don’t think we should have that sort of censorship in our society. But people also need to think very much about what they put up on Twitter and what they put up on social media. That’s why we’ve got the eSafety Commissioner, that’s why our Federal Government, the Liberal Nationals Government, has invested heavily in the eSafety Commissioner and that’s why we’ve got an eSafety app. And we urge and encourage people to use social media platforms very wisely and think about what they put up there. Because we are in an era where mental health is a big thing and people should think very carefully and closely about what they upload to those social media platforms.
GEORGIE TUNNY
But shouldn’t facts, then, be upheld above all else? What kind of censure is there for party members who may be spreading misinformation?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, again, I mean, facts sometimes are contentious, aren’t they? And what you may think is right, somebody else might think is completely untrue. And that’s part of living in a democratic country.
GEORGIE TUNNY
But the scientific facts as well, especially in the times that we live in right now, surely, they must be given precedence?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, again, I say I’m not in favour of censorship of that order. I’m not in favour of censorship of that order, but I do urge and encourage Australians and particularly parents when they’re monitoring their children’s internet activity, just make sure that they download those apps and make sure that they look at what the eSafety Commissioner, that the Federal Government has invested wisely and heavily, in to see what they have to offer to make sure that, you know, kids are safe online. I know Nola Marino has done an enormous job, the Member for Forrest in Western Australia, to urge and encourage people to use the internet wisely. But as I say, I’m not in favour of censorship, never have been.
GEORGIE TUNNY
Let’s move to JobKeeper. Of course, this program is tapering off, it’s coming to an end. Do you think that struggling businesses can survive without it firstly and is there a plan for maybe getting some support to continue if necessary?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
We have provided the support as needed all the way through. We’ve tweaked our responses, we’ve made sure that we’ve had the right extensions to various programs, certainly in the aviation sector and looking at JobKeeper and JobSeeker and those sorts of provisions. We’ve met on an almost daily basis as a Cabinet, as an Expenditure Review Committee but its borrowings can’t keep happening. The debt level can’t keep rising. We need to taper these off. And business people tell me they don’t want to be on this sort of assistance. They want to be able to stand on their own two feet. They want business to be coming through their doors and they want the turnover to be happening such that they get back to where they were, some sort of normal cases in, you know, pre-COVID business activity.
And I know this is so important. And I know that Peter Strong from COSBOA and others, ACCI and various business groups, they also want to see business back to where it was at some level pre-COVID. It’s going to be difficult, there’s no question. 2021 is also going to present many challenges. I’ve owned a small business. I’ve operated one. I know how hard it is.
GEORGIE TUNNY
Excuse me for interrupting you there Acting PM, but I did just want to talk about businesses and how they can continue. Because of course it’s related to borders and whether or not they do stay open. How do you view the current state of border closures right around the country?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, again, it’s difficult. But we’ve got the vaccine to be rolled out in February. I spoke to Minister Greg Hunt yesterday, the Health Minister, about that very provision of getting that assistance, getting those vaccines out the door. And we’ll make sure – Josh Frydenberg, and I spoke to him at length last night, the Treasurer, about what we’re doing as far as supporting businesses. And we’ll continue to make sure that we provide the right assistance for workers, for businesses. But again, I say, you know, the support that we provided through JobKeeper was always temporary and was always targeted. Businesses knew that. We need these border closures to be lifted and life to get back to some sort of normality, because we need business activity.
I’m in Townsville, a great place to visit, a great place for tourist activities. And businesses here, they’re crying out for people to come here, to spend money and to see the great delights that are in the tropical north.
GEORGIE TUNNY
As a Queenslander myself, I do know how beautiful that part of the world is. And just finally, Mr McCormack, yesterday the WA Premier called on New South Wales to reassess its virus approach and to pursue elimination instead. What do you think?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
I think what New South Wales has done as far as tracking and tracing has been magnificent. They’ve shared the heavy bulk of the load of bringing Australians home – 443,000 Australians have returned home since the Prime Minister made that call and urged and encouraged Australians to return on March 13. 71,000 since September 18. New South Wales has borne the brunt of that and many of those West Australians have come through Sydney, done the quarantining and then returned back to Perth or wherever else in Western Australia. So I don’t think Mark McGowan – as good a job as he’s done, too – I don’t think he should be criticising Gladys Berejiklian. I think, instead, he should be picking the phone up and saying, “Thank you for doing what you’ve done,” and New South Wales has been very, very good at keeping its economy open and helping not just its own state but all Australia.
GEORGIE TUNNY
Acting Prime Minister, Michael McCormack, from Townsville. Thank you very much for joining us this morning. We appreciate your time.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Come visit here. Thank you very much.