TRANSCRIPT: ABC INSIDERS INTERVIEW, 14 March 2020
9:20AM
Subjects: $1.2 billion tourism and aviation package, Yallourn Power Station, Christian Porter, March 4 Justice, Western Australia Election;
DAVID SPEERS
Michael McCormack, welcome to the program. Let's just talk about this list of destinations, when it was announced on Thursday the Prime Minister defended not including Hobart, for example, he said, “We already have lots of flights going into Hobart.” Well, now Hobart has been added to the list along with Adelaide and Darwin. How does this work? How do other towns and cities get on the list? Is it a question of who complains the loudest?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Morning David, it's a question of AusTrade identifying those areas, which normally at this point in time David would be awash with international tourists, people from overseas, going and spending money in those locations and of course they're empty streets, they're empty hotels in those locations in many parts and we want to get people from Australia. And I suggest that listening to the lead-in there – Gareth, Shane and Laura – they need a bit of a holiday, they should come to one of those destinations, we all should.
DAVID SPEERS
Okay, just to be clear on that, sure we should, but you're saying AusTrade looks at who's got the most empty hotels and then more will get on the list, is that how this works?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
AusTrade identify locations throughout Australia as needing people to come to them, international tourists normally everywhere in those locations and of course, nowhere to be seen because the international borders are closed. And so, having identified those 13 locations, we've since added four, Townsville, Darwin, Adelaide and Hobart and we will potentially add more. This is an initial list, David –
DAVID SPEERS
And is this the same envelope of money? The more you add, will you spend more or does it just mean fewer flights to more destinations?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, this package is going from April through to July and we'll look at it, we'll revisit it as we've done all the way through. Every measure that we've put in place through this pandemic has been scalable, it's been targeted and it's been temporary. So we'll continue to look at it as we've done all the way through –
DAVID SPEERS
Will you spend more is my question? Will you add more cities, like Hobart today? Does that mean you spend more or is it from the same envelope of funding?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well potentially and as I say we've increased our spend all the way through. And this is obviously, an extension also to the other airline support that we've put in place, David, the regional airline network support the domestic aviation network support we've extended that twice – I've extended it twice to make sure that those destinations get airlines and obviously get personal protection equipment – get face masks, get respiratory devices and most importantly, get frontline medical personnel.
DAVID SPEERS
But on this policy, some of your own MPs though, are still in their words, “livid” that regional Australia's missed out on this particular policy. Pat Conaghan says the scheme doesn't provide anything for regional and rural residents. Anne Webster says, it's quite distressing that so little effort has been put into regional areas, other Nats that I've spoken to point out there's no discounted flights from regional Australia to any of these locations. If you are where you are, Wagga Wagga for example, you've got to get yourself to Sydney if you want to access one of these discounted flights, have you ignored your own people here?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
What we've done is we've made sure that those areas which don't have the international tourists as they normally would, at this time of year, they don't have international tourists, we want to get those people from Australia to those locations to spend money in hotels because – to spend money on tourist boat operators – every dollar spent on an airline ticket is worth $10 at the destination –
DAVID SPEERS
Sure, but their concern is that this is great if you're in Sydney or Melbourne. What if you're in Wagga Wagga, how does this help you?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, indeed and people from Wagga Wagga often jump in a car and drive to a location people in Wagga Wagga can access this. I have got to tell you, the public are delighted with this, so I appreciate that –
DAVID SPEERS
I am sorry Minister but your MPs aren’t, I just quoted some of them.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, there are also many MPs which are positive and to a degree, all the Nats see that there are aspects of this which are very, very good and we will revisit it as we've done all the way through – targeted, temporary, scalable, making sure that we provide this benefit. The airlines need it, they need to keep the workers, making sure that they've still got a job because planes in the air, means jobs on the ground.
DAVID SPEERS
This whole package is $1.2 billion, how much of it is actually going to these discounted flights?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, it's demand driven, David, and so what we'll do is we'll spend the money –
DAVID SPEERS
Sorry, I am pretty sure the policy says there are 800,00 flights, it is capped isn’t it?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Yes and it's based on the price of an airline ticket which was back in February. So ACCC will monitor the situation so that it's not gamed. But I have to say Alan Joyce and Jayne Hrdlicka from Qantas and Virgin, they're very pleased and the public are also very pleased –
DAVID SPEERS
Is it demand driven or capped?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, it is demand driven, of course, well it's obviously going to be capped at the higher end but of course, it is demand driven and the more people who take it up, then we will revisit it, it's from April through to July –
DAVID SPEERS
Sorry, I am very confused here, that cap of 800,000, that no longer applies?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, once the 800,000 is used up and we hope that everybody avails themselves if they want to take one of those tickets and once that 800,000 is used up, we'll revisit it as we've done the whole way through because we want planes in the air, David. It's tragic to go to an airport and to see planes banked up, one after the other outside the hangar. We want them in the air, we want the jobs on the ground and I'll tell you what the workers from Qantas and Virgin are very pleased. The public are very, very pleased. The tourism operators in those locations, they’re delighted, I've spoken to many of them and of course, we'll continue to look at these, as we’ve done the whole way through.
DAVID SPEERS
The other part of the package that was announced on Thursday is to help the staff at Qantas and Virgin who work in the international flight division, help cover their wages, now they're on JobKeeper at the moment, that's about $1,000 a fortnight, how much will their wages, be covered under this policy.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, we're working through that with the airlines at the moment, David, it's a $200 million program –
DAVID SPEERS
I'm sorry to interrupt but Qantas has said that this is one for the Government, they are determining how this funding will work. So can you tell us how much –
MICHAEL McCORMACK
What we're doing is we're investing and it is an investment because we want these international workers, we want these flight crew to be able to be ready when the boarders reopen.
DAVID SPEERS
So, what are you paying?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, it's a $200 million package, we're working through that with the airlines, but what we're doing is we're upskilling we're making sure that they've got the training retention happening, and we're also making sure that the planes are going to be ready, you can't just roll a plane out of the hangar and stick it back on an international route. So, what we're doing is we're making sure that this package, which extends right through to the end of October, is there so that when the borders reopened – international borders reopen – we've got very much, planes in the air, we've got air crew sufficient and trained and upskilled ready to go.
DAVID SPEERS
But you can’t tell us how much you’ll pay –
MICHAEL McCORMACK
It is a $200 million package –
DAVID SPEERS
I am just asking what that means for workers –
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, what it means is that they'll still have a job. What it means is they'll still be connected to either Virgin or Qantas and what it means is that when we get those international borders reopened, they'll have the flight hours up, they'll have the training up, they'll have the skills up and they'll be ready to go. David, we’re working with Singapore at the moment, potentially for a bubble in July and these are positive signs and as the vaccine rolls out, not only in Australia but in other countries, well, we will reopen more bubbles.
DAVID SPEERS
Let me turn to another portfolio area: energy. Another big coal fired power station is closing, Energy Australia announced this week the Yallourn Coal Plant will close in 2028. The Government's been expressing some concern as to what this will mean for prices and stability and supply, why doesn't the Government have a an energy policy that can smooth out this inevitable transition away from coal?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, we do, we've got an $18 billion roadmap for energy and as Angus Taylor said, this is unfortunate. I do absolutely want to put empathy there for those workers – there's 500 workers there at Yallourn, that power station has been open for 100 years and we need to be empathetic of their situation, David. They're going to potentially lose their jobs, of course, but at least we've got a good lead in time, seven years so we can we can adjust we can see what other measures we can put in place but let's not forget that power and energy, of course, was once the remit of the states. And I have to say the states, to a large degree have abrogated some of that responsibility, it's fallen back on us, but we've got an $18 billion roadmap, we'll make sure that we put in place measures to keep energy, to keep power reliable and affordable –
DAVID SPEERS
But this is part of the problem, it's the Federal Government, threatening and hinting and suggesting, that it might intervene and build a gas plant, that it might intervene and build a coal plant, it's that sort of uncertainty that's making it very hard –
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, we might have to, David. We well might have to and it's going to take a very long power cord, of course, to get Victoria’s energy needs to where they need to be. We all remember the 2016 power outage in South Australia and businesses were screaming blue murder because their power went out, their fridges went out, the whole state went into blackout and we don't and can't just rely on intermittent power at the moment. We need to make sure that we've got those reliable, traditional energy sources –
DAVID SPEERS
So, you say you have a clear policy, well, let's just see how clear it is. When you were last on this program I asked you about the idea of adopting an emissions target of net zero by 2050, here's what you said.
[Excerpt]
So, do you still think net zero by 2050 is not the Australian way or do you now agree with the Prime Minister that it would be preferable to reach that target?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Whatever we do, we'll get there through technology not taxes, David. Whatever we do, we'll make sure that we've got a clear path – we've got 29 years before 2050. Who knows what inventions might take place in that time, who knows what absolute advancements in technology will take place –
DAVID SPEERS
So do you support that target or not?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
I support, of course, getting lower emissions, but also support factories and farmers and people being able to afford their household power prices and I support agriculture being a big part of any 2050 target. We're actually meeting and beating our Paris commitments, we're actually well on track to meet and beat what we said we do by 2030 and we're doing it through technology. We're doing it through farmers with soil sequestration and those sorts of things –
DAVID SPEERS
So did you say that you would support agriculture being a part of any target.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, so long as agriculture isn't impacted on the other way with cattle and their methane gases and farmers having to pay a slug on actually having stock and so long as we don't lose jobs in regional Australia. Of course, we want lower emissions and of course, we’re working towards meeting our international obligations in every which way.
DAVID SPEERS
So no exemption for agriculture?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, I don't want agriculture unfairly impacted but what I want to say is agriculture part of the solution.
DAVID SPEERS
On the Christian Porter matter, James Hooke, a former boyfriend of the woman who accused Christian Porter of raping her says he had relevant discussions with her back in 1988 and then with Christian Porter in the years that followed. Given the gravity of this allegation, shouldn't his testimony be heard?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
If Police deem it's desirable to do that. Christian Porter, like anyone, is obviously subject to the rule of law and the Police have closed the case, David. This is a very tragic situation, of course it is. And of course, the family and others – family and friends of the young woman – must obviously be devastated. But by the same token, the rule of law applies, and the rule of law applies to Christian Porter like anybody else. Everybody is subjected to the rule of law and the Police have closed the case.
DAVID SPEERS
Given Police have closed the case, as you say, surely at the very least the Government needs to take some legal advice from its legal adviser the Solicitor-General on this. On whether this testimony needs to be heard, whether the Attorney-General should continue as the nation's chief law officer?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, of course he should, he's in Cabinet and he does hold that position of Attorney-General, but if the Police have closed the case. We're not the arbiters of the law. The Politicians are not the arbiters of law. That's the job of the Police.
DAVID SPEERS
Why did the Prime Minister [inaudible] to Christian Porter himself about this and indeed his own Department about this? If he's not the Police, if he's not the rule of law, why did he need to conduct his own –
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, of course, he's going to ask questions, but at the end of the day, any judicial process must be conducted in the proper process and that's done by the police.
DAVID SPEERS
Thousands of women are going to march tomorrow, including outside Parliament House, will you step outside of the building and speak to them.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
No, I've already got commitments that I will meet and I believe if you make commitments, then you should stick to those but I appreciate that this is an important issue and I understand, you know, this is part of our democracy that people have the right to march and protest and of course, any submission or thing that they want to take forward, I know that Marise Payne, who is the Minister for Women, she has said that she will take those submissions.
DAVID SPEERS
She's apparently not going to step outside of the building, either. Are you seriously saying that you won't have 10 minutes to go and listen to the women who are coming to Canberra?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
No, I've got meetings all day but look, at the end of the day, you know, we want Parliament to be a place which is a fit and proper workplace and I know that indeed, in my office I've said that to my staff. I have made sure that they know all the proper processes and protocols and if there are issues, that people feel that they are not being supported in and if there are issues that, indeed, are very grave, then they should be dealt with by the proper authorities. So the Department in the cases of harassment and indeed the Police, if the matters are more serious than that.
DAVID SPEERS
Final one, the West Australian election result, pretty extraordinary outcome there, the Liberals wiped out. They'll have about two seats, The Nationals look like they'll have more than that, they'll hold the official Opposition Leaders title. Does this latest State Labor victory make you nervous at all?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, as Antony Green said, there are state and there are federal legislators and obviously the jurisdictions are different and people understand the difference between state and federal look, of course, we'll look at the result and we'll make sure that we understand the implications of that result. I've already messaged Mark McGowan and congratulated him and said I look forward to continuing to working with his Government to build the infrastructure that West Australian people want, need, expect and deserve. And I also look forward to working with Mia Davies, she's been absolutely brilliant, making sure the interests of regional West Australians have been represented and she will continue to do that, whether she's Opposition Leader, but she'll certainly be in the Parliament, I know what a great job she will continue to do.
DAVID SPEERS
Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack, thanks for joining us.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Always a pleasure, David, from Wagga Wagga.