TRANSCRIPT: INTERVIEW ON 2GB WITH CHRIS SMITH, 26 SEPTEMBER 2021

Subjects: Net zero 2050, COP26 Glasgow nuclear energy,

E&OE

10.10am

CHRIS SMITH

Former Nationals Leader Michael McCormack and senior Victorian MP Darren Chester are urging party colleagues to back greater climate action to ensure Australia can remain relevant on the international stage. Their comments yesterday came after Australia and our Quad partners said they would announce ambitious emission reductions ahead of the UN climate talks in Glasgow in November.

The Federal Member for Riverina, Michael McCormack, joins me right now. Michael, good to have you on the radio again.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Thank you, Chris. And I can answer that question that you just asked, but I won't give it away.

CHRIS SMITH

No, don’t, that goes against all the rules of the famous rolling quiz.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

They are a favourite of mine. My wife put me on to them some time ago and I wish she hadn't, because the girth doesn’t need that.

CHRIS SMITH

Not too healthy, it’s full of carbs, yes, I'm with you. Now, what do you specifically want the Government to do when we get to Glasgow in November? What kind of promises are you looking for?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I think we should go to Glasgow with a position on our climate action. We need to tell our international friends that we are not only meeting but beating our international obligations when it comes to climate action.

We have lowered emissions further than what we said we’d do when we signed up to Paris and I don't quite think the world community understands just the role that we are playing. And indeed, I don't think a lot of Australians quite grasp what our regional Australians are actually doing for lowering emissions.

CHRIS SMITH

So do you want the Prime Minister to say precisely that there will be a zero emissions target by 2050? Or earlier?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

If we can get to that position, that would be good. But we're not going to say we're going to do something that's going to be at the expense of our largest export commodity.

We're not going to be doing something that we're going to absolutely trash our economy or putting power prices through the roof. And that's the position I've always taken. We need to make sure that we've got the lights on. We need to make sure that we've got affordable, reliable energy, that's first and foremost. We need to make sure that we've got our export industries which are creating – well, just with coal it’s $50 billion worth of exports, 50,000 jobs and 300,000 indirect jobs, two thirds of our energy needs.

Now, we're not going to actually just draw a line on that and say “no no no, we're shutting down Gladstone, we're shutting down all of our coal fired power plants and we're shutting down all our mines. We're not doing that for the sake of being some sort of great international model.

But what we need to do is make sure that we have a clear and sound and articulate position on this. But we need to reach it in a in a way that we're not going to smash our regional economies and communities.

CHRIS SMITH

Well, yes, I worry when I hear National Party MPs turning green because, if we don't watch out, it'll be farmers who'll be the ones to suffer the most from green targets and green taxes and tax credits.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, I said all along, I said way, way back when I first became the Leader of the National Party, that

our agriculture, which provides the food and fibre for our people and many others besides, needs to be protected from any of these targets. But our farmers are leading the way. They are technologically driven. What we're doing in the GPS world is quite incredible and people should understand that and city people, particularly, should understand that our farmers are leading the way when it comes to carbon farming, when it comes to soil sequestration, when it comes to using less and producing more.

CHRIS SMITH

Yeah, that's very true. They keep whingeing about farting cows but, at the end of the day, we are changing the pastures of grazing areas to make sure that that isn't at its maximum. We're going great guns in terms of that which has been recognized by the IPCC, Michael.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Too true. And the other thing, too, is that as we breed better animals, that is also going to play a part and who knows what technology might be produced over the next 29 years so that we do get to net zero emissions. And it wasn't that long ago we didn't actually have these handheld devices that we now absolutely live on and now absolutely rely on. And the amount of communications, telecommunications and other technologies are quite incredible. And farmers use these to make sure that they can do the right thing for the nation and for the world.

CHRIS SMITH

Yeah, very true. I remember some of your comments about climate change over the years, Michael, I've got to raise them again, like, for instance, in 2019, you slammed the climate change concerns of inner city raving lunatics at a time when rural Australians are dealing with catastrophic bushfires. In 2021, February, you also pointed out you're not worried about what might happen in 30 years. You are now.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, I was pretty worried at the time about Adam Bandt and others pointing their accusatory fingers and saying the fires were caused by climate change.

Now, the fires were not caused by climate change. There were any number of factors, including arson, which caused a lot of those disastrous and deadly fires. And at the time, I think, if I can correctly remember, the Prime Minister was being accused of all sorts of things because of some very, very sad deaths when it came to those fires. And you can't just blame the fires on climate change. You cannot. And as well, we need to make sure that we play a part. We are playing our part. And it would be nice to go to Glasgow with a position on net zero, would be nice to go there with a form of words about what we're doing about climate and reducing emissions because we are playing our part. That's what I've always said.

CHRIS SMITH

Now that we're about to get nuclear-powered submarines, and a lot of my listeners like to talk about this as I do …

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I know where you’re going here – I'm not against going down the nuclear path.

CHRIS SMITH

Why can’t we think about nuclear energy? The technology has changed dramatically in recent decades. We could put it somewhere that's not impacted by tidal waves or earthquakes. We could actually do it in small, modular, nuclear reactors and power remote areas and remote manufacturing, etc. It's got to be the right fit for Australia, surely?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, you said, why can't we? Why don't we? I mean, why don't we have that conversation? What we would be worried about is, of course, people saying that Chernobyl is going to be built right in their backyards. But the fact is, if people want to get nuclear medicine, radiology and all the rest to get better, they're the first to line up, and yet when it comes to nuclear power, they're the first to run a million miles. And, you know, this is something that we have to get over, something that we've got. We've got the uranium. We've got all the resources. I can't understand why we don't have that conversation. But I think we will, I think we're reaching that position where if we want to get lower emissions then nuclear – it’s all well and good for those countries that people uphold and say, well, look at them, they're great, they're going down the net zero path, but they've all got nuclear energy.

CHRIS SMITH

France, 71 per cent.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Couldn't agree with you more. So we need to have that conversation, a sensible, rational conversation about where we go, how we reach net zero. And the thing about net zero, too, is that we need to have the conversation because if we don't all the farmers and all those regional people who do rely on trade, on beef and cotton and minerals and all the rest, they need to have markets in the future and if countries turn their back and shun Australia because we aren't going down the net zero path then that's counterproductive for our nation as well.

So it's a conversation we need to have. If we can find a pathway to ensuring that we have net zero by 2050, which is not going to affect jobs in regional Australia, which is not going to push power prices through the ceiling and I think it'll be a really good position to take to Glasgow.

CHRIS SMITH

Well said. How's the land looking around the Riverina at the moment?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

It's one of the best seasons, farmers tell me, that they have seen in a long, long time. We've had those good winter rains. We've not had the disastrous frosts that sometimes we get late winter, early spring and it’s looking magnificent. The canola is just blooming. The stock are looking fat. It's going to be a great season.

Unfortunately, we just need to get the labour. And of course, I'm glad that the Nationals fought so hard, with the Liberals, of course, to make sure that we've got that ag visa in place. We just need to get those final few arrangements so that we can get that staff, that labour onto our farms, into our cherry orchards and all the rest to make sure that we get that wonderful produce picked and harvested and onto domestic plates and onto ships for overseas export.

CHRIS SMITH

Good to hear a bit of positive news in the bush. Great stuff. Michael McCormack, thank you very much for your time.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Any time at all.

CHRIS SMITH

Federal Member for Riverina, Michael McCormack. It's 19 minutes after 10.

10.19am

Shane Manning