TRANSCRIPT: INTERVIEW WITH DAVID EISENHAUER, SOUNDS OF THE MOUNTAINS, THURSDAY 20 OCTOBER 2022

Subjects: Weather, flooding, water infrastructure, road infrastructure, regional funding, Federal Budget, Agricultural Shows

E&OE

8.36AM

DAVID EISENHAUER

Heading up to the nine o’clock news and sport weather details and on the line Member for Riverina, our regular guest on a Thursday fortnight, Michael McCormack joining us this morning. Good morning, Michael.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Good morning, David.

DAVID EISENHAUER

On a beautiful day, a bit of sunshine, a little bit of cloud. What’s it like in – obviously you could be anywhere across the electorate this morning!

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I am in Wagga Wagga this morning. It’s quite a nice morning. A little bit cloudy, but it’s OK. The sun’s trying hard to peek through those grey clouds. But we just need more sunshine and not just in Wagga Wagga, but Echuca, Shepparton, Forbes, Tasmania. Anywhere up and down the eastern seaboard, eastern states, inland, on the coast it doesn’t matter, we’re all under threat of a lot of rain to come potentially over the weekend and into early next week. I was speaking to the Forbes Mayor, Phyllis Miller, just yesterday. They were expecting about a 200-millimetre dump. That would be disastrous. They’ve already issued around 30,000 sandbags and, of course, they’re just bracing for the worst, hoping for some dry days and into early next week because the Lachlan is just about ready to not only burst its banks but go through those low-lying areas of the town. They have been flooded six times in the past 12 years. They used to get a flood every seven years or so since 1887 – those records have been kept – but in recent years it’s been quite disastrous for the town and they’re tired, the volunteer workers right across the region, right across the country, David, we owe a debt of gratitude to those wonderful volunteers, whether they are SES, whoever they are, but even the full-timers – the wonderful people from the fire brigade, ambulance, police, all those wonderful emergency services workers, the first responders, gee they are doing a great job.

 

DAVID EISENHAUER

Aren’t they what and assisted by members of the community as well, which is terrific to see. You see that in droves in Victoria and really coming in. I mean you talk 30,000 more sandbags in Forbes, a town that knows it gets flooded and a town that has systems in place, but the amount of rain we’re getting of late. The dams are full. They’re mitigators. We need to put a bit of extra height on that Wyangala wall.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Oh, well we do and I certainly came to the party when I was the Deputy Prime Minister, we put up $325 million as requested by the State. It was initially a loan and they asked for it to be a grant, so we changed it to be a grant. So a $650 million project to add 650 gigalitres of capacity – that’s more than the Sydney Harbour – into that Central Western area of New South Wales. Now, had we done that at the time, of course this may well have been very much eased, flood mitigation. It would improve, indeed, the farm productivity of that town and of that district. Appreciate that they have come back and said “Well, it’s going to cost a bit more”. We said “OK, how much more?” and that’s where it’s stayed, unfortunately.

But we just need to get on with those costings, that business case and if it costs more than a billion dollars, it’s an investment. If it costs more than two, well, let’s look at it. I mean, these are the sorts of things we can’t keep procrastinating. We have to build water infrastructure. If they can do it in Tasmania – and we started and finished Scottsdale Dam in North-East Tasmania during my time as Deputy Prime Minister because we had a willing State Government and bureaucrats who were willing to roll up their sleeves and do the work – then we have to be able to do it here in New South Wales.

Indeed, Rookwood is going ahead as we speak and I’ve been up there, I’ve seen the graders moving dirt around and digging the holes, making sure that we do that project. It can be done, it needs to be done, it must be done.

DAVID EISENHAUER

We see, from time to time, when we see these flooding events and people say “yes, that’s now”, but in 200-plus years of history, it’s not even a visible dot on the evolution cycle. Do we need some more dams to be built?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Absolutely. No question whatsoever. And that’s why when I was the Deputy Prime Minister, I know a lot of people criticised me on Facebook when I called on the Government to do it, the Federal Government to do it, but they need to understand that we can’t do it without the States. The Commonwealth can’t build the water infrastructure without the say-so of the States. So we’ve got $7.1 billion of money available there for projects large and small but we have to get the States on board, we have to get those departments on board and sometimes those departments that live in the high-rise office towers in capital cities don’t always understand the needs on the ground. Even in Victoria they said well it is not going to rain enough again to necessitate building dams in Victoria. Now that’s, you know, I can remember others saying that the rivers will never run again. We’ve heard all those sorts of things, but they do and they’re doing it more consistently. They’re doing it, you know, it’s so hard on these communities. But we can also build farm agriculture, we can also build exports for our markets to ensure that we get more dollars into this country, so they pay for themselves over the years. We have to have the absolute impetus, we have to have the initiative and we have to have the courage to do it. But it starts now. It has to – the money is there Federally. The States have to come on board. I have had a good chat to Dominic Perrottet, he understands. I know Steph Cooke is all for raising the wall at Wyangala, so if it is good enough for Warragamba, and I appreciate there’s more Sydneysiders affected by flood than perhaps those near Wyangala in the in the downstream area of Wyangala, but if it’s good enough for Warragamba it has to be good enough for Central Western New South Wales.

DAVID EISENHAUER

It’s been talked about for years. People would have seen the stories, Landline ran a few stories there last year or so on this particular proposal. It’s one of a number of dams that they’ve looked at. But it’s also the upstream farms – that was always going to be an issue, too, is that what happens to that beautiful country? The same issues were faced when the Government of the time were looking at building Blowering Dam and they looked at all that beautiful farmland and thought what’s the options?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Indeed. And look at it, it’s like anything. I know there’s always going to be noisy minorities who are going to be against certain projects but, look, if we had the attitude now back when we were building the Hume Freeway duplication, we never would have got it done and it would still be the goat track that it was. It was as recent as the early 1980s. So that saved lives. It’s protected lives. And it’s now four-and-a-half hours from Wagga Wagga to either Sydney or Melbourne on a good day.

We just need to get in and build this water infrastructure, need to do that sort of thing to protect our communities, to protect the likes of Forbes and, indeed, to build agriculture around Cowra, around Forbes, around West Wyalong, that Lake Cowal area. This would only enhance what we’re doing and they can say “well, water’s going to be too dear”, well let’s get the market right to ensure that the water that would be available for agricultural productivity is at a level that is fair and compatible with the availability of it in any given season, but let’s do it for flood mitigation as well.

DAVID EISENHAUER

Indeed. And then when we get, we will see droughts again in this country. There’s not a doubt in the world …

MICHAEL McCORMACK

You would have thought Dorothea Mackellar would have written a poem about it, wouldn’t you, David?

DAVID EISENHAUER

You’d think so! Probably food for thought there.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Indeed!

DAVID EISENHAUER

Michael, you mentioned the Hume Highway and dams and walls and funding; next week Jim Chalmers hands down the Labor Party’s first Budget. This is going to be the Albanese Government’s first Budget. We’re looking at regional funding. What, what are you expecting?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I’m hoping that certain projects that we committed to, indeed the Veterans’ Well-being Centre at Wagga Wagga and many others are still in there. I fear that they’re not going to be, I hope that the Building Better Regions Fund is certainly continued because that provides great outcomes for local Governments and local communities right across our State, right across, indeed, the entire nation and I do hope there is some funding, additional funding, for roads because they are a mess at the moment. The recent rainfall and heavy downpours in recent months has just made the state of the roads terrible and dangerous. And I spoke to Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister, in Forbes on Monday about this very thing. I know he flew in, it’s a shame he didn’t get in the car and drive around a bit more. I appreciate he was time poor, as Prime Ministers often are, but he would not have had to go out of Forbes far to see the state of the roads and, for Local Governments, it’s difficult because they’ve got a low rate base. There is rate pegging, I appreciate they can apply to IPART to get additional rates varied so that they can impose those additional costs on ratepayers who are already dealing in tough with the cost of living. And if you’re running a business, if you’re running, of course, family budgets as we all are, it is difficult to make ends meet for many, many people, they don’t want another rate slug on top of that. And so I think it is incumbent on both State and Federal Governments to see what they can do at this difficult and challenging time with the state of the roads and the way that they are, to get more funding from Canberra, from Macquarie Street, to be able to find that money and to be able to put it into a special roads fund or whether it’s an increase in the Local Roads and Community Infrastructure fund I put in place when I was Deputy Prime Minister to make sure that we fix some of those potholes, all of those potholes, and indeed even upgrade the roads that need it, particularly the worst roads that need it.

DAVID EISENHAUER

And we are going to see a lot more damage on roads. There’s some horrendous photographs on the social sites, particularly in Victoria of the flooding damage that’s down through there. Some of those bridge areas and the SES has been …

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Extraordinary, David.

DAVID EISENHAUER

They’re big dollar amounts. People talk about building roads, we’re talking millions of dollars a kilometre depending what they’re building or more …

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, it’s a million dollars a kilometre is the average for roads from country roads right up to freeways.

DAVID EISENHAUER

It’s a lot of money.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

So it’s a lot of money and I appreciate that. But we’ve got record prices for coal, we’ve got record prices for iron ore. Agriculture is doing well at the moment so there are receipts coming into Government. I appreciate we’re in debt, I get that. We are in debt because we had to save lives and save livelihoods through COVID and that was first order of priority … but compared to other countries around the world, we’re doing OK. People shouldn’t panic and get too alarmed by the situation in Australia because, I tell you what, it is a lot, lot better, far in excess of what’s happening and elsewhere and you only have to read about the troubles in the UK at the moment with the new Prime Minister, Liz Truss. I think they should get off her back, too, a little bit. But that’s another story, but it’s it is a parlous situation right across the world, but Australia is doing OK.

DAVID EISENHAUER

It’ll be interesting, looking forward to next week when Minister Chalmers hands down this Budget and see where the money is going to come from and what will be funded because we have seen wonderful projects and we must mention again, Kristy was talking this morning about our telecommunication services in the region and the lack thereof in some areas. We need a huge amount more put in. I know the Government network, the radio network, it’s been rolled out at the moment. We’re working with a company called Catalyst at the moment on one of the towers here that are putting the GRN in. We’ve got these COWs, the Communication On Wheels in Gundagai and in Tumut just in case we need to activate that thing a bit early if the floods come along. This needs to be permanent and somehow or rather as bulletproof as we can possibly get it. But they are like roads, they’re really expensive little items of agenda when you look at it on a budget sheet. A proper communications tower is a lot of money.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Indeed it is and the pie is only so big and there’s a lot of demand and a lot of call on Government money.

I get that. I appreciate that. We’ve got the Victoria and New South Wales elections in coming months. So I expect that there will be funds for many things. They will certainly find funds for some projects, being these political campaigns that they are, so let’s find some money for the roads, let’s find some money, as you say, for more telecommunications, appreciating that there has been already some wording out of Canberra that there’s going to be more money for regional telecommunications as far as the NBN etc. So it’s got to be seen as a good thing and I’ll give credit where credit’s due.

But speaking of looking forward to things, David, I understand it’s going to be a very good Show with a very good ringmaster/commentator announcer at Junee on Saturday and that being you and I’m very much looking forward to coming along to the 132nd show in that fine railway town. You’ve done about 30 of them as I understand?

DAVID EISENHAUER

Yep, yeah we started when I was still at high school then and it was ’87 or ’88 or something we were kicking off there with a bloke called Graham Barker.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

You would have still been in Primary school wouldn’t you, David?

DAVID EISENHAUER

No, I wish! Did our time in ’89 was Year 12 and Graham, there was John Nash, there was of course Rory, of course, Angus Lane who runs around now with the shows as well as a commentator. But yeah, it’s a funny, funny thing, the commentary field but, I tell you what, the Junee Show, I’ve called Cowra, I’ve called Young and several others. These shows, Michael, these are fantastic things for communities and they used to be all full of Clydesdales and the best harness and all the gear that we saw on Landline last week. The Royal Shows are still there chock-a-block full but in our regional shows, we’re evolving we’re changing, the showgirl name is gone. It’s now in this Junee Young Woman of the Year. So it’s an interesting time we’re going through. But I’m seeing the same faces on the committee doing the same jobs they did 60-plus years ago, Michael McCormack.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, it’s the same in Rotary. It’s the same in the Lions. One organisation that is actually getting more volunteers and younger ones through is the SES which is encouraging given what we’re going through at the moment.

DAVID EISENHAUER

Isn’t that good?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

But onto these shows. Yes, Peter Commens does a great job over there at Junee and like many show presidents and many show committees right throughout the region, Junee Show does a wonderful job and I would urge and encourage people if there are a little bit of grey, leaden skies on Saturday morning, don’t be discouraged. Get along to the Show because the Show needs people and we don’t support these agricultural exhibitions and these wonderful shows and getting down to Sideshow Alley, we won’t see them in the future because they’re great things for the community. I know during the hiatus of COVID where shows were not held, the Federal Government took the initiative to fund more infrastructure and I know that Junee has benefited to that effect, as have many of the other show societies right throughout the region. They do a great job. So they’ve got better amenities, they’ve got better facilities. They’re doing their very best to put on a great demonstration, so I would urge and encourage those people, not just from Junee, but from right throughout the region, to support Junee on Saturday, you’ll hear a great announcer there in one David Eisenhauer but there’ll be fun there. And, you know, take your brolly if need be but get along to the Show because it is entertaining and they are good family events.

DAVID EISENHAUER

My word they are. Look, Cowra had a very successful Show in amongst the rain which was good. It got a fine weekend. We have, of course, the Cootamundra Show was just recently held and then we, of course, start to wrap up the shows. We’ll get going again with the Kiama Show in January and of course, then we’re off to Gundagai and then Tumut and Corryong and all over the district. I mean, 132 committee AGMs, so that’s a long time, Michael.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

You know, Junee is a fabulous community, they are really proud of what they do. The Roundhouse Museum there had a great demonstration of what they do as far as their rail side, of course, the town is an old town. It’s a good town. It’s been contributing to the economy of the Riverina for so many years. But they’re good folk. They need your support on Saturday at the Show, so get along there. I see the Rugby League team is getting revived at Junee. The Diesels are going to be back in town next year and they’re recruiting a few players. So, Junee’s is on the move. It’s on the up.

DAVID EISENHAUER

And, of course, Michael it is nearly news time and we look forward to seeing you in either the Bushman’s relay or the six bar show jumping contest, no doubt.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

(Laughs) Ah yes, well let’s wait and see for that, hey?

DAVID EISENHAUER

Indeed. Really appreciate your time as, of course, the Member for Riverina – such a big district, Michael, thank you so much for joining us as always on a Thursday fortnight this morning.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

See you at the Junee Show on Saturday, David.

DAVID EISENHAUER

Indeed.

Ends 8.53AM

Shane Manning