TRANSCRIPT: AFTERNOON AGENDA WITH KIEREN GILBERT, 30 MAY 2022

Subjects: Election

E&OE

2.47pm

KIERAN GILBERT

Welcome back to the program. Joining me in the studio is Nationals MP and former Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack. Thanks very much for your time. A change in leadership in the Nats, what, why has that course been taken? I’m sure it’s one that you supported.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well because the party room had a vote and as we always do, we clean the slate after an election and as it has always done in every election, we’ve always had a clean slate and David Littleproud and Darren Chester both put their hands up as did obviously the incumbent leader, Barnaby Joyce, as well. So the party has decided that David Littleproud is going to take us forward and I wish David every success and also wish Barnaby every success. I would like to think that the legacy of Barnaby will be the Inland Rail and other projects which he espoused, fought for and delivered, and indeed the National Party going forward has now got a new Leader and a new Deputy Leader of course in Perin Davey, delighted that both Perin and Susan Ley as the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party, both come from southern New South Wales, southern Riverina, my electorate, my patch. So that’s good.

KIERAN GILBERT

You’ve won every one of your seats and picked up a Senate spot, so normally a leader would be safe in those circumstances, wouldn’t they?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Yes, they would. But look, you know, as I say, it was a clean slate. So David decided to put his hand up. He decided that it was his time, his turn, put his hand up, pitched to the party room and the party room agreed that it was time for a fresh change.

KIERAN GILBERT

A generational change?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

It is because he’s mid-40s, he’s articulate, he’s intelligent. He’s been around now for a couple of terms. He’s been the Minister for Agriculture. And, you know, I wish him every success. I think he’ll do a very good job.

KIERAN GILBERT

Was the view that Barnaby Joyce wasn’t going to run next time anyway? So make the ...

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, we don’t know that Barnaby is not going to run next time. The view was that David was going to take us forward and that’s how the party room voted.

KIERAN GILBERT

I know from covering the teal seats and a few of the debates with Monique Ryan in Kooyong and Allegra Spender in Wentworth; in those seats, it was quite a potent line. They used it a lot saying if you vote for this candidate, you’ll get Barnaby Joyce along with their government as well. Was he a negative.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, I guess in that sense, yes, he was. But there were many factors as to why we lost the election. But let’s face it, those teals; they are orchestrated, financed. They’ve got their own colours, their own brands. They talk amongst themselves. They’re not independents. They are a party and they are a formidable party. But they should be treated as a party. They’re not independents in the true sense of other previous independents have been. But we’ll deal with that. Anthony Albanese, he’ll obviously deal with it as Prime Minister. And, you know, Labor Party, well I just hope and pray that they don’t actually ignore regional Australia. We’ll keep them to account for that. We will keep the Labor/Teal/Greens Government to account for the fact that they do need to look after the programs and projects that we put in place for regional Australia and regional Australia, obviously with the seasons that we’ve had, harvest coming on, it’s a good time to be in regional Australia. So we hope that they don’t get ignored when it comes to that cabinet table and the financial decisions that will be made.

KIERAN GILBERT

There were a number of seats, including your own, where there was a swing away from your National Party members. Is that part of the reasoning as well about this renewal, going to Littleproud and …

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I can’t speak for other members, but as I say, clean slate. We’ve made the decision this morning, I wish Barnaby every success in the future but I wish David Littleproud absolutely every success going forward. We now need to put the past behind us, the infighting and whatever else as occurred. We need to put that behind us and need to form a credible opposition, a credible opposition so that people in three years’ time can look at us and say, well, the Nats have been very good in opposition. They’ve made sure that the government was kept to account, they have made sure that the government knew that regional Australia was and always is, first and foremost, priority for the National Party and hopefully in three years’ time the public may well see fit to give us another crack.

KIERAN GILBERT

Do you think that there needs to be unity on your response on climate change? I know that Sam Birrell, the new Member for Nicholls, I interviewed him last week and he said his electorate; a lot of irrigating farmers and so on, they don’t want any wavering on that commitment.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, we made the commitment in October last year of net zero by 2050. That’s what we signed up to. We got a raft of programs, projects as a result of that. We’ve signed up to that. I think the distraction during the election campaign where Senator Matt Canavan said it was dead; that was unfortunate, but we need to leave that aside. We’ve agreed to net zero by 2050, I’m sure David Littleproud, even this morning said that we need to be on the one page on this.

We need to help the Liberal Party be as credible as they can be to make sure that we form a credible opposition and we will certainly do that. I’m sure that David Littleproud and Peter Dutton are going to work very closely and well together, just like Perin Davey and Sussan Ley will, but just like the Liberal and National Parties will do, we’ve always done over the past 70 or so years we’ve been a very good and stable Coalition, united Coalition going forward.

KIERAN GILBERT

So while the Nats won all their seats, is your concern that your friend Josh Frydenberg and others copped a bit of the blowback from some of that language around net zero and so on?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

It is unfortunate and I’m sure Josh Frydenberg will have a big part to play in the public narrative in the future. He’s obviously sore and bruised and licking his wounds at the moment, but I know Josh will be back. I know Josh will be back in one way, shape or form.

Ken Wyatt; I’d love to see him as the next Governor-General, the first Indigenous Governor-General of Australia. I think he has so much more to offer the public discourse and debate.

KIERAN GILBERT

Ken Wyatt the next GG?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I would love to see that. You heard it here first!

KIERAN GILBERT

Do you think he has got enough support on the other side of politics?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

They respect him and I know Linda Burney, as his opposite, respected what Ken brought to the to the table, to the debate and I know Anthony Albanese did, too.

KIERAN GILBERT

So why did the Coalition lose the election, in your view? What was the was the core problem?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, it comes down to votes in seats and we didn’t win as many seats as Labor did.

KIERAN GILBERT

Was a due to the former Prime Minister, Mr Morrison?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

No, I’m going to get into it, I’m sure the Liberal Party will be having their review as they are. I’m sure the National Party will have a review where we will look at where things went wrong, where we need to do better, where we need to re-earn the respect and trust of the Australian public. Let’s not forget that Labor also got its lowest primary vote since I think about 1910. They actually lost a percentage of their primary votes as well. So obviously there’s is an emergence of the teals and that will obviously, in the course of time, people will come to learn that that might not always be the greatest decision that they made when they cast their vote at the ballot box. But we live in a democracy and aren’t we lucky that we are. And we’ve had the decision. We now have to accept it, move on, be a credible opposition and that’s what we will do.

KIERAN GILBERT

Do you think the Coalition needs to commit to big points of difference, say, supporting nuclear power or a policy along those lines?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I’ll leave those discussions to the incoming shadow cabinet, to Peter Dutton and David Littleproud. I’m sure we’ll be having more to say in the time to come.

KIERAN GILBERT

Have you got any thoughts along those lines on whether Australia should back that?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, obviously, with nuclear, I mean when you get to zero emissions, net zero a lot quicker than you will under transitioning away from coal, which is going to cost tens of thousands of jobs and tens of billions of dollars of your balance of payments. So I’m sure that that discussion will be had. But also I think with nuclear, it probably needs to be a bipartisan agreement before one party just plunges into the deep end.

KIERAN GILBERT

Former Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack, thanks for your time. Appreciate your time. A big day for The Nats.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Any time at all, Kieran.

ENDS 2.54pm

Shane Manning