TRANSCRIPT: ABC INTERVIEW WITH SAM ROBINSON, 16 OCTOBER 2023
Subjects: The Voice
E&OE
STARTS: 7:00am
ENDS: 7:10am
SAM ROBINSON:
Michael McCormack is Federal Member for Riverina and has been vocal for the No campaign, joins me now. Good morning, Mr. McCormack. Good morning. What now?
MICHAEL McCORMACK:
Well, I think what now we need to see is, as Peter Dutton said on Saturday night, very much a Royal Commission into sexual assault amongst children in some of those remote communities in particular. What we need to see in terms of reference is where the $33 billion is spent into Indigenous programs. And I think we need to see the reinstatement of the cashless welfare debit card, which was very much making such a difference in many of those communities, and the Aboriginal women who, in many instances, lead those communities, said that it had led to very much an end to domestic violence, end to money being wasted on drugs and alcohol and had led to better outcomes for their children. They had been going to school more, and going to school with their stomach full, and they were much happier communities. And yet the Government, without any care or consideration, took that debit card away, and that has led to worse outcomes to those Aboriginal communities, particularly in remote Australia.
SAM ROBINSON:
How can you be confident that is what Indigenous people really want, though given The Voice has been shut down?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Because I’ve been to those communities, I’ve listened to those women. I’ve spoken to Jacinta Nampijina Price, who has lived experience in those communities. And look, the Australian people were given a choice, they voted, and what we now need to do as best we can, move forward together, united. Not put these notions up that everything will be alright; trust the Government that will get the words of the legislation right after the event. Australians were very perturbed about the fact that they weren’t given all the facts, all the details, prior to the referendum. It’s been defeated.
The Australian people, in the democracy that we live in, in the democracy that we engage in, have spoken. Now, we need to do what we can to close the gap and not divide our nation by race, not enshrine the Voice into the Parliament whereby it is based on race. What we need to do is move forward and have a look at where all that money is being spent and make sure that it goes to the best outcomes for Aboriginal people.
SAM ROBINSON:
So, do you think then that there should’ve been two questions asked. Maybe recognition and voice as separate questions in the Constitution?
MICHAEL McCORMACK:
Well, if it was a simple question about recognition in the Constitution and that was all the question would have been, like 1967, it would have passed. But Australians don’t want their founding document, the Constitution being changed. It’s only been changed eight times in 45 referenda. You know, we have been a Commonwealth since 1901, so Australians like the way the founding document was written. Is it perfect? Well, probably not. But I tell you what, we are the greatest nation on Earth as Jacinta Nampijina Price said on Saturday night – we do care for each other.
SAM ROBINSON:
But do you think, do you think that Jacinta Price’s opinion is reflective of the whole Indigenous community though?
MICHAEL McCORMACK:
Well, I don’t think anybody’s opinion is reflective of the whole community, no. But I tell you what, she’s got a big following, and I’ll tell you what, a lot of Indigenous people followed what she said because she has that lived experience. Her mother, Bess served in the Northern Territory Government, Jacinta herself has been in Local Government. She’s been an outstanding Senator, not just on Indigenous matters but on so many matters. Anybody that thinks Jacinta is a one-trick pony is wrong. She has a very bright future in the Federal Parliament, and a lot of people are listening to what she has to say because she says it so clearly. She articulates her concerns, and her issues and her views, very clearly. She speaks to a lot of Australians, and a lot of Indigenous Australians are following what she’s says and like what she’s saying, and what they like what they see and what they hear.
SAM ROBINSON:
I’m speaking this morning to Michael McCormack, Federal Member for the Riverina and talking about the result of the referendum on Saturday night. Mr McCormack, the path of this referendum began when Indigenous leaders met in 2017 and wrote an invitation to the Australian people to walk with them on a path towards constitutional reforms to empower our people and to take a rightful place in their own country and in their own words. What would you say to First Nations peoples within the Riverina who might feel let down by the Australian people, as you heard only earlier from Sebastian and Ella McCorry, who are sitting their exams this week for the HSC?
MICHAEL MCCORMACK:
Well, even what was stated in the Uluru Statement, we’ve heard and listened and learned that certainly not everybody who signed that statement realised what they were signing. That’s the first point I will make. The second point is that according to the Uluru Statement website and own information that they put out there during their campaign for the Voice, the closest to the Riverina electorate was Dubbo. Well,that’s not even in the Riverina electorate. So, Wiradjuri people within the Riverina electorate did not have that say. Now, I appreciate Hewitt Whyman, who had a lot to say on the referendum. I spent an afternoon with him discussing the Voice, and I spent a lot of time talking to other Aboriginal people in the electorate about their views and their concerns. Not all of them were on board with the Voice. At the end of the day, all Australians have spoken. They spoke very loudly and very resoundingly on Saturday in the Riverina electorate. And if you look at the results booth by booth, if you look at the overall result, it was 72% voted no. Particularly in regional areas where there is a high proportion of Aboriginal people, particularly in areas where there are Labor ministers who have done nothing else but talk about the Voice in recent weeks and months, including very senior Ministers. That vote was a resounding no in their own electorate. What we need to do is get back to the issues that really matter to all Australians.
SAM ROBINSON:
But what would you say to those that are hurting right now?
MICHAEL McCORMACK:
We will work with you, we will very much do what we can to close the gap in a better way. We can’t keep making mistakes of the past. As Peter Dutton quite clearly enunciated on Saturday night, a Royal Commission into where Aboriginal money is spent, so it’s not being spent on activism, it’s not being spent in Canberra, it’s not spent on very smart lawyers and bureaucrats who are not seeing the money spent where it needs to be. I mean I’ve visited Mornington Island in the Gulf of Carpentaria, I worked there with the local shire mayor, Kyle Yanner, they don’t have a swimming pool, and they don’t have an aquatic centre in a community of 1,100. I’ll tell you what, it’s pretty hot there all year long. Now, The Voice wasn’t going to give them that swimming pool, but I’ll tell you what, I’ll work towards getting them that swimming pool because I gave them a promise that I would, even though it’s a long, long way from the Riverina. I think what we need to do is in the national interest, what we need to do is in all Australians’ interest.
SAM ROBINSON:
Michael McCormack, we are going to run out of time. I just want to ask you about that result, Saturday’s referendum a 60% no vote nationally, but the latest count from the Riverina, as you mentioned there is 72% no. What do you think that says about your electorate? And are you concerned at all that there’s an issue of race here?
MICHAEL McCORMACK:
No. Australians didn’t want the Australia that they live in, that they love in, that they grew up in and that they work in divided by race. Australians did not want that. Australians wanted, and the Riverina people certainly wanted, a better outcome for Aboriginal people, yes. Riverina people are not racist. I’ll tell you what: there are some people in the media who need to take a good hard look at themselves, locally and federally, across the nation, and there are a lot of politicians who need to get the focus on Australians and the people of the Riverina want it to be on. And that is the cost of living, better outcomes for Aboriginal people, that’s why we need the Royal Commission.
SAM ROBINSON:
Can I ask, on that question there about the media, who are you aiming at there?
MICHAEL McCORMACK:
Well, there’s been a lot said and written locally.
SAM ROBINSON:
By who?
MICHAEL McCORMACK:
Well, I’m not going to get into it. I think the people who read the media and follow the media closely know exactly what I’m talking about. There’s been a lot of slants towards making sure that we had a yes vote. The yes vote has been very much pushed by media right across the regions and again, they’ve backed the wrong horse. They haven’t listened to the other side.
SAM ROBINSON:
Mr McCormack with all respect, it’s done now, the no vote has won and so we’ll leave it there.
Thank you for your time.
MICHAEL McCORMACK:
Thank you.