TRANSCRIPT: ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING WITH GREG JENNETT

SUBJECTS: May Budget, Pacific Funding

E&OE

STARTS: 4:30 PM

ENDS: 5:00PM

GREG JENNETT

The Parliament doesn't sit until tomorrow, but nearly all MPs and Senators are already back in the building, which incidentally turned 35 years old today.  This means our political panel is right here with us. And joining us is Assistant Trade Minister Senator Tim Ayres. Welcome back, Tim and Shadow International Development and Pacific Minister Nationals MP Michael McCormack. Welcome to you too, Michael. I guess you were mere pre-schoolers 35 years ago when this building opened. But here we find ourselves a few years later. Budget coming up tomorrow, Tim Ayres, single parent payment announced today. More to come where that came from, lower paid welfare support payments we can bank on that?

TIM AYRES

Well, I think like everybody else, Greg you'll have to wait until tomorrow night's Budget. This Budget's framed in a way that you know, it is going to be a Budget that's constrained, of course, by what's happening around the world, by what's happening in terms of inflationary pressures on the economy. What's framed by the war in Ukraine, and it will be about Labor delivering on its election promises about trying to make sure that nobody is left behind. And there will be within the constraints of the Budget, we are going to do the very best that we can do for the most vulnerable Australians.

GREG JENNETT

I know you would want to await detail before passing judgment, Michael McCormack. But would you begrudge an increasing Jobseeker if the Government can find that money?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

There’s 80,00 vacancies in regional Australia at the moment and certainly, the Government should be looking at ways and means to get those 80,000 jobs filled and regional Australia is going to pay the brunt. They're going to shoulder the burden for this Budget, and it will be a Budget where regional Australia is going to be hit hardest. We know that and already Catherine King has put on hold $120 billion of projects because she's going to review them. The only thing that's going to be piling up, the only thing is going to get built is the in-tray in Catherine King's office. And I really worry about what this Budget is going to do for regional Australia.

TIM AYRES

It's the National Party of today. They're opposed to it before they've seen it.  They say that their constituents are going to suffer, but they haven't read it. You know, I think people should hold and reflect on the Budget when it's delivered. You know what, what Australians want to see is a Budget that delivers for them, delivers on the key infrastructure and service questions for ordinary Australians.

GREG JENNETT

There would still be a number of people and single women in particular on single-parent payments in regional Australia, and that's having its rules changed, effectively prolonging and or increasing, depending which way you look at it.

MICHAEL McCORMACK
Tim has mentioned the most vulnerable, we've got to look after the most vulnerable we did as a Government. And I'm sure that the Budget will have some things in there, but you even look at the HECS debts that students are now paying back. The highest amount of interest they're going to be paying in 32 years. You always pay more under Labor, that’s a fact. And tomorrow’s Budget will be no different. And look, if I am wrong and it is not going to hurt regional Australia, well, I’m happy to admit that. But I look forward to Tim coming in and trying to justify it if the opposite is the case.

GREG JENNETT

All right. Let's see if we can find some consensus on around gas taxes, petroleum resource rent tax is going up to the tune of $2.4 billion. The question for the Government though Tim, is could it have gone harder? There were lots of options available to it that could have raised much more additional revenue than $2.4 billion. Why not?

TIM AYRES

Well, I think this is a sensible bringing forward a series of measures. There has been broad consultation, it will deliver on the plus side terms of revenue and means that Australians get a fair share of their resources being extracted by these companies. The gas sector is a sector where I think Australians are entitled to believe that they should get their fair share in terms of proceeds. And I think this package does the trick.

GREG JENNETT

And the industry itself, we just heard Michael McCormack is looking for certainty in their terms. That means bipartisanship so that this done and legislated as it announced by the Government.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, Labor has done nothing to demonise mining, demonise industry which through coal, gas, and iron ore, has actually propped up the Budget books and propped up, during COVID, our economy. And indeed, the industry which supports tens of thousands of workers. Labor should be out championing those, and yet they demonise the industry. And I know we need to get to net zero and the mining industry is playing a big part in that. But let’s not just cut off the gas supply. It is bad enough that we have shut down Liddell. We are going to be paying more for energy and we haven’t seen the power price cuts that Labor promised, that Anthony Albanese promised on 97 occasions. Where are those? Well, maybe they might be in tomorrow’s Budget.

GREG JENNETT

Let’s get to that in a moment, but just a follow up on petroleum resource rent tax. You are saying Labor is trying to do all sorts of things to mining. Is that an argument against supporting?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, it’s $2.4 billion whack to the gas industry. I’ll wait to find out the detail, I know the companies themselves have had to sign a document to say they’re not allowed to go public on it. And I good on Samantha McCulloch for coming out and talking about it. Well, let’s see the detail. It’s always the detail with Labor. Let’s see what transpires tomorrow night.

GREG JENNETT

Ok, so to Michael’s point Tim, about household energy bill relief has been a long time in the waiting, announced or foreshadowed in December. And we are going to get the details tomorrow, why was it necessary to wait this long?

TIM AYRES

Well, let’s wait for the detail tomorrow evening. Remember, Labor's commitment on energy prices was made in December prior to the Russia-Ukraine conflict.  It's a commitment that is about what happens at the at the end of the term. And the one thing that we know for sure is that the lowest price energy for Australia, the lowest priced sources of electricity for Australian households and businesses, renewables plus storage. Now, any other path means higher electricity prices.  The Government has been very diligent in this area. And in terms of what Michael says about where we are on mining and resources, this is a government that's backed mining and resources, backed the sector and National Reconstruction Fund.  Very significant. Part of that is all about backing the mining industry to move up the value chain.

GREG JENNETT

So, you're saying that the $275 commitment on household energy bills can and will still be met?

TIM AYRES

Well, that’s the nature of the commitment. It’s there. Let’s wait to see tomorrow night what the details of the package are.

GREG JENNETT

All right. A surplus appears in the offing, apparently. Michael McCormack, long overdue. Why not spend some of that, what do you think?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I still remember Wayne Swan having his speech written by Jim Chalmers, who will deliver the Budget tomorrow, saying the four years of surplus are announced tonight. I never saw one and Labor hasn’t produced a surplus since 1989. Most of them wouldn’t be able to spell the word, let alone pronounce it. They don’t know what a surplus is. Yeah, good luck with that. If you believe that Labor believes in surpluses, you also believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden. Okay, let’s put that point out there, I don’t want to spoil the kids’ afternoons. But look, it’s just nonsense. It’s poppycock, it really is. Labor in surplus. The two words don’t belong in the same sentence. 

GREG JENNETT

Well, it might be somewhat more believable because it is for the current financial year. They need to get it right.

TIM AYRES

Let’s wait and see what Jim Chalmers says about this matter tomorrow night. I don’t want to hear too much crowing about surpluses from a government that didn’t deliver one over the course of the last decade. They did deliver the little black mugs which said back in black, all printed off, ready to go. I’ve got one in my office.  

MICHAEL McCORMACK

So do I, I’ll bring it in next time.

TIM AYRES

But it was produced just a little bit early. And you know, we’ve got to have our eye on what really matters here. This Budget, in the environment that we’re in, with the cost of living going up needs to deliver sensible cost of living relief, will deliver sensible cost of living relief for the most vulnerable Australians and for ordinary Australians out there in a way that is not inflationary. It will deliver outcomes consistent with what Anthony Albanese said we would do in the lead-up to the election. And that’s the kind of Budget people should expect tomorrow night.

GREG JENNETT

Now there is a bit of policy overlap in your respective portfolios around the Pacific and our regional neighbours. ABC reporting suggests that there is to be a new approach and a hefty dollop of funding to go with defence, overseas development and policing in our neighbourhood is that long overdue were the neighbours anticipating this from Australia?

TIM AYRES

Well, I don't want to sound like a broken record, Greg. You're going to have to wait for tomorrow night. I saw the story. I mean, I think you can expect that what happens in the Budget tonight will reflect the approach that Labor in Government has taken to the Pacific. This is our neighbourhood. This is the region in which we live. It is utterly vital that we establish good, effective relationships across the region, that we support development, that we respect the sovereignty of our Pacific neighbours. We support their sovereignty and resilience. And we build a neighbourhood that's resilient, whether it's in terms of dealing with the impact of climate change or the broader security and economic questions.

GREG JENNETT

And is that the message you have been receiving in your world?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

The framework about the Pacific was put in place during the Coalition years. And look if there’s additional funding for the Pacific then that is welcomed. If there is more police and those sorts of provisions, then we would certainly welcome them. We don’t welcome the migration lottery that the immigration system by which Labor is putting in place. We don’t want to have a brain drain from those Pacific countries who need the best and brightest for themselves. But look I’ll await the outcomes of the Budget and let's hope that there is something good there for the Pacific.

GREG JENNETT

You see this is a bit of a follow up or extension to the Morrison era.

MICHAEL McCORMACK
Indeed, well let’s hope so.

GREG JENNETT

All right, quick final one. Stuart Robert leaving, is he trying to jump before Robodebt now?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I wish him all the very best. He's been a good mate of mine and I wish him all the very best and certainly hope to see a local campaigning on the issues that matter to the people of Fadden. And it will be an important by-election year, of course. But let's hope that the Liberal Party, the LNP will endorse a good local who will get in there and fight for their interests as Stuart has.

GREG JENNETT

And not winnable for Labor in Fadden.

TIM AYRES

Oh, I think it's a very tall order in that electorate. As we know, it's almost unprecedented for a government to take a seat of an Opposition in a by-election. It's happened once in 100 years. It happened just a few months ago, I was very pleased to see Mary Doyle walk in as the new Member for Aston into the Labor Caucus today. She is going to be a real fighter for that seat. We're delighted to have her in the Parliament and in the Caucus.

GREG JENNETT

You're giving us the segway for our next item Tim Ayres. We're going to thank you and farewell you both. Tim Ayres and Michael McCormack, thanks very much for coming back.

Emma Sullivan