TRANSCRIPT: ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING WITH GREG JENNETT, 31 JULY 2023

Subjects: Home Affairs, Housing Australia Future Fund and Pacific Defence Force

With Tim Ayres

Starts: 4:30pm

Ends:  4:40pm

E&OE

GREG JENNETT

Time for our political panel to join us. We have today Labor frontbencher Senator Tim Ayres and Nationals’ frontbencher Michael McCormack. Both very welcome guests here in the studio after a winter break it is good to have people back on our patch. Why don’t we go first of all, to Tim Ayres to the announcement that was made slightly before Question Time and was reiterated by the Prime Minister. There is to be an inquiry into Home Affairs contracting arrangements as they relate to Nauru and to Papua New Guinea, this follows reporting by Nine Media. Is this a get Peter Dutton exercise? We have effectively the terms of reference in a written statement today, is it limited in its scope to any particular era?

TIM AYRES

Well, it doesn’t seem on the face of the material. It is limited to its terms of reference, it is going to be conducted by one of Australia’s most eminent public servants, Former General Director of ASIO, Dennis Richardson. We are determined as a Government to get to the bottom of what has happened here, for good public policy reasons.

GREG JENNETT

Even if it happened under the watch of multiple Labor Ministers who oversaw offshore processing? Peter Dutton named them this morning, they include Tony Burke, Chris Bowen, and Julia Gillard even at one point.

TIM AYRES

Well, there are some extraordinary allegations that have been made here, and as a Government, we have got to get to the bottom of what has happened. Mr Dutton should explain what has occurred here. That is a matter for him in the Parliament to do that.

But we are determined to have a proper inquiry that will be deliberated on properly under the Cabinet system including consideration by the National Security Committee Cabinet. We will make sure that the policy lessons are learnt here that we get to the bottom of it, that there is proper accountability and that is the way this Government is going to approach the question.

GREG JENNETT

What might those lessons be, Michael McCormack? I mean is there a cloud that hangs over the vast amounts of money, even to this day vast amounts of money spent in these overseas countries.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, any of these deals or procurements are done by the department so let’s just park that to the side for the moment. The inquiry will look into all those aspects but as Peter Dutton has quite correctly indicated, the department does these arrangements, the department does these negotiations. Let’s see what the inquiry comes up with that’s probably all that needs to be said as far as we are concerned at this stage. Let the inquiry do its work and let the proper processes take place.

GREG JENNETT

So should officials, senior ones at Home Affairs be worried then if it's not going to claim any ministerial scalp and we’re not suggesting it is, could the pieces land around the department?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Time will tell.

GREG JENNETT

Alright, well we don’t know much more about it besides that Dennis Richardson is running all of this so we will keep across that. Why don’t we move on to double dissolution triggers and the Housing Australia Future Fund? Why is racking up this potential trigger by reintroducing it into the House such a priority now with all the rest of it that is going on, Budget measures to be delivered. Tim Ayres are you intent on getting this and using it?

TIM AYRES

Well, the reason there is so much focus on it is because this is a scheme that will build 30,000 homes in our suburbs and in our regional towns. This is a key part of the Governments policy architecture in the housing area, it is effectively a fund that the surplus of which will be deployed into more housing supply, it is good policy. I understand that there is the negative politics of the “Noalition” a refusal to engage with any idea, the Government has a mandate for this position.

GREG JENNETT

It is the Greens that are standing in your way.

TIM AYRES

Well, everybody has got to take responsibility for their vote in the Senate and in the House. Now the Liberals and Nationals are determined to vote against it, the Greens political party— their spokesperson Mr Chandler-Mather said over the course of the weekend — this is all about them being able to generate a political campaign on the ground. Well, the problem is that you can’t live in a slogan, you can’t use a slogan to pay the rent, you can’t find housing with a slogan. Now I appreciate that there are people who want more from the Government, I understand that is the point. But what I don’t understand is campaigning in a way that wipes out the potential of building 30,000 homes. The Government is absolutely determined to proceed with this. As for double dissolution triggers there are consequences that flow from relentless negativity and the gamesmanship that is occurring in the Senate this week.

GREG JENNETT

Some of these consequences could end up in your lap. Do you fear the potential early election, Michael?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, for a start I don’t disagree with Tim on the Greens. Here is the banana republic party, Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything. That is what the Greens stand for, banana, you can use that if you like.

GREG JENNETT

Thanks Michael don’t touch the green bananas only the yellow ones.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Bent. Well, as far as the housing policy is concerned here is $10 billion, $10 000 million of additional borrowed money. And will it see any houses built, you can’t find a labourer or indeed supplies at the moment in regional Australia to build a house, let alone social housing, let alone any house.

GREG JENNETT

So that is your primary criticism?  

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, there is a whole raft of criticisms I don’t have time enough to detail through all of them. New housing starts have slumped 6.5% under this Government, under Labor’s watch. You have got people homeless, but you haven’t gotten the laborers or the building supplies, timber, iron brackets just to put the house together. And here we have got the Labor Party … who want to stop the timber industry, want to stop gas appliances in new homes. Where do we start and stop with all of this?

GREG JENNETT

By that argument they would never do it, there would never be a good time.

MICHAEL McCORMACK

They aren’t going to do it. What is the Government doing as far as getting all its Labor mainland state mates on board with its housing policy, what is it doing indeed with Local Government? Through the states to make sure there is a subdivision supply, that is a big issue too when we are talking about housing. They are huge issues. Have a housing summit do those sorts of things. Come up with real, sensible ideas that aren’t going to cost $10 billion and not build a single home.

GREG JENNETT

Another summit? I don’t know about, but we will take your suggestion all the same. A quick one to both of you. I will put this to you because it is in your shadow area Michael McCormack. This exploration of the idea of a Defence force being raised for the Solomon Islands and Australia supporting it, good idea? How deep should we get into that?

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I don’t disagree with what the Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles has said on this, we always remain absolutely supportive of the Pacific, of Vanuatu of the Solomons, and our Defence force is ready to help in any which way. We need to make sure Prime Minister Sogavare and others knows we are behind them, and we do everything to support every effort that they are making.

GREG JENNETT

It is conceptual at this stage Tim Ayres but are there not risks in standing up yet another, I know they are not uncommon in Pacific Nations setting up Defence Forces, particularly given some of the recent friction around the Solomons, is there risk?

TIM AYRES

Well, this is just part of the new Government’s approach to engaging fully in the Pacific. Making sure in the case of the Solomon Islands for example that they acknowledge that Australia is their security partner of choice. We are determined to engage with them about new propositions and old propositions making sure that we are part of the story and that’s what Minister Conroy and Deputy Prime Minister Marles have been doing of the course of the last few months. Recent announcements by the Solomon Islands Government has seen the Prime Minister be very clear about Australia’s position and so have other Pacific leaders.

GREG JENNETT

It doesn’t sound like there is much argument domestically but let’s see where that takes us. Tim Ayres, Michael McCormack we are going to wrap it up today. Thank you so much for joining us once again.

Emma Sullivan