TRANSCRIPT: ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING WITH GREG JENNETT, 15 APRIL 2024
SUBJECTS: Bondi Junction Tragedy, Israel-Iran Conflict & Deportation Powers
E&OE
STARTS: 4:30pm
ENDS: 4:41pm
GREG JENNETT
Let’s bring in our political panel this Monday, joining us Labor MP Sam Rae, Sam is in Melbourne and Coalition Frontbencher Michael McCormack, Michael is in Wagga Wagga in New South Wales. Welcome to both of you. Sam, I might start with you — Bondi Junction — Australians well beyond Bondi Junction I assume, even where you are in Melbourne, could well be feeling more vulnerable because of the weekend attacks there. Does the apparent ease with which someone with a knife can access a building like that, crowded one, cause justifiable concern in your view for public safety.
SAM RAE
Greg this is a devastating and senseless attack, a tragedy. And as the Prime Minister said our thoughts at this time are with the families, with the loved ones of those victims and our hopes for the people that are recovering in hospital at the moment. It’s also appropriate to acknowledge and to thank the police officers and the many emergency services workers who always, but particularly in this case, put their own safety on the line to protect our community. Of course, we must single out that one lone police officer who so bravely brought an end to this attack and did what was necessary in order to ensure that further lives were not lost. It’s very upsetting and it’s obviously bringing up a lot of emotions across the community. Of course, we need to show respect to the investigation process as it is ongoing so that we can give some answers to those families that deserve them.
GREG JENNETT
Yeah, I understand that and it was a gallant effort by all at the scene who dealt with the emerging crisis. Michael McCormack, I’m sure in your travels you will have experienced, as I have, that in some foreign countries, it’s not uncommon to go through security screening as we might see at an airport before accessing something like a large shopping mall. Now, in many ways, it would be a shame to see a development like that in Australia. But should it be under consideration?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, look, I know the New South Wales Premier has called for an inquiry and he will do that. I know that the coroner will make certain findings and recommendations and I think we all should let the nation grieve as it will. Each and every one of those victims was loved, each and every one of them loved others and this is just such a terrible tragedy. I don’t want to be the one who’s going to call for every shopfront, every shopping centre, every mall to have that sort of security screening. We live in a fair, free, democratic and open country. It’s an absolute tragedy, as Sam has pointed out, we all know that, the parents of the perpetrator — they too — understand just what has been done here and nobody holds any grudges against the police officer. Sadly, in some cases, it used to be damned if you shoot and dead if you don’t. But she has made the right decision; everybody acknowledges that, and we should acknowledge the police, as Sam has just done, for the work that they do. They run to tragedies, they run to these sorts of situations when most people run the other way. But even on Saturday, the bystanders who were helping out at those moments that they held up that perpetrator for those few precious seconds prevented probably further the tragedy and Amy Scott is, as the Prime Minister and everybody else has declared, very much, a hero.
GREG JENNETT
I’m certain that is the case. Sam, can I ask in the Victorian context, you know, when Islamic State was wreaking havoc, we saw design responses and policy responses, a hardening of public places, the installation of things like bollards around central Melbourne sites. As you walk around and look at security guards in private settings like a large shopping mall. Do you think they’re a bit under-protected, which Chris Minns in New South Wales has asked to be reviewed? You know, the issuing of vests, for instance, or forms of spray – not weapons, he hasn’t called for firearms, but do they look a bit unprotected from your point of view?
SAM RAE
Greg, as Michael has said, I think the nation needs time to grieve this terrible tragedy and the loss of life and we’ve got an investigation. We’re probably going to end up with a number of investigations, I imagine, that review these matters. And I think it’s proper and appropriate that we allow those investigations to take place, that we show respect to those investigations and the findings from those investigations. And, of course, I imagine that Governments of any persuasion, across many jurisdictions, will look to implement whatever is necessary in order to ensure the safety of our communities. But at this time, I think we really focus on these wonderful people who have been lost and, as I said, acknowledge the great bravery of our emergency services, who responded.
GREG JENNETT
Due process is important. Michael, I don’t want to dwell too long on all the possible variables that might come out of these reviews, but just on that — have we underpowered private security guards in crowded settings like malls, through regulatory limits?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Our police were on the scene very, very quickly and let’s acknowledge the work that they all did. They had SWAT police, they had riot squad, they had everybody they needed to, in double-quick time. What we don’t want to see is a situation where security guards, bouncers, and all those sorts of people have due access to weapons. Look, that’s not Australia, that’s not the Australia we live in, we love. Going forward, I know, as Sam has said, as others have said, there’ll be proper process, there’ll be the proper protocols put in place. The investigations will continue. I think Australia needs time to draw breath, to grieve, to bury these beautiful people and let’s see what happens from here on in.
GREG JENNETT
Alright, fair enough, we’ve probably spent long enough on that for today. Let’s go to something of greater global concern right now, beyond Australia’s shores that is, and that is the Iranian drone and missile strikes at the weekend. Sam, is Israel entitled to retaliate to this most recent expression of aggression by Iran, in your view?
SAM RAE
Greg, as the Prime Minister has said, Australia utterly condemns these attacks by Iran. They have not heeded the international community’s call for restraint in this regard. Israel has a right to defend itself and Australia stands by Israel’s right to defend itself. But we want to see a de-escalation of violence in the region. We risk violence in the Middle Eastern region spilling over into a much greater conflict and so I think all focus at this point should be on de-escalation under the circumstances.
GREG JENNETT
Is that a real risk? Michael? I know it’s being talked about by analysts as a real risk. Sometimes it’s hard to read through what is sort of diplomatic pressure and what is real here. What’s your own interpretation about an escalation?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, for a start the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps needs to be listed by Australia as a terrorist organisation. It is, let’s face it. It is. Everybody is walking on eggshells at the moment because of what is happening in the Middle East. It’s a matter of watching in nervous anticipation of what might happen next. Israel has the right to defend itself, it has been attacked by Iran, it has been attacked by Hamas. This is simply not good enough for the world to stand by and watch this. But we watch with faded breath as to what will happen. And we need to be absolutely making sure that when, if it does escalate, that we pick the right side. Because let me tell you what happened on October 7 is reprehensible and it continues. Israel is right to defend itself. Hostages must be released, Hamas must be dismantled and the world must do everything in its power to ensure that Hamas is and does get dismantled.
GREG JENNETT
All right, look, let’s just close out with one other matter. We will be discussing it with a Liberal Senator on the committee. But there’s been a Committee Inquiry here by the Senate today into those deportation powers for non-citizens. Sam, the Law Council urged the committee process don’t pass this bill. They think it transgresses all sorts of human rights obligations that Australia has. Will the Government heed that? Should it?
SAM RAE
Greg, Peter Dutton and the Coalition have done nothing but play politics with this issue, they voted for the bill in the House of Representatives, they moved to block the bill in the Senate. This is an important issue, this is about clearing up a problem that is a hangover from the former Government, a loophole that the former Government left in legislation. It’s about ensuring that we have an orderly migration and visa processing system that is in line with Australian values; and it really is incumbent upon the Coalition to put their money where their mouth is to come and work with the Government in order to get a satisfactory outcome, in order to protect the interest of Australia through this process.
GREG JENNETT
Alright Michael, Sam’s throwing down the gauntlet. I’m wondering, like him, whether the Coalition zigged when it should have zagged. I mean, you supported it in the House, now when you get to the Senate inquiry, the overwhelming weight of testimony that I could see today was to not proceed with this. Do you regret having stalled in the manner that you did?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Orderly migration system and Labor Government are words that never belong in the same sentence, Greg. Sam hasn’t been in Parliament that long that he can remember, probably, the absolute disaster and chaos that came about under the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd years with migration. This is on Labor’s watch, these people are in our community with ankle braces, mind you. For the simple fact that Labor let them out. Mind you, that said, I wouldn’t listen to the Law Council too much when they say that everything should be stopped. What we need is tough policies, what we need is good legislation, the right legislation to make sure these people are behind bars, they stay behind bars and if we can deport them, then we must do so. It’s simply not good enough. Public safety should be the number one priority of any Government and Labor has let the country down, let the people down with this indecision, with this chaos that they have inflicted upon the nation.
GREG JENNETT
Alright, we’ll stand by. Let’s see whether the Senate actually seeks to tweak or amend this in any way. And I’m going to say in Sam Rae’s defence, he’s probably wise in experience beyond his years in the Parliament, Michael. Thanks to both, Michael McCormack, Sam Rae, really appreciate it.
ENDS