TRANSCRIPT: ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING WITH GREG JENNETT, SENATOR TIM AYRES, 2 SEPTEMBER 2024
Subjects: Treasurer’s comments on Reserve Bank of Australia, the economy, Housing policy, domestic aviation
E&OE
STARTS 4.34PM
GREG JENNETT
Time to bring in our political panel now. And we’re joined by Labor frontbencher Tim Ayres. Tim is in Sydney. Welcome back Tim. With his regular partner, Coalition frontbencher Michael McCormack is in beautiful Wagga Wagga. Welcome to you, too, Michael.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Windy Wagga Wagga, Greg! Like everywhere else in the Eastern States at the moment.
GREG JENNETT
Well there’s not really much of a place that isn’t, as you know, across the Monaro down through the South Coast. It’s been quite a few days. I’ll say that of Canberra too, because I was out in it over the weekend. All right, Ayres, let’s go to you first of all, RBA versus the Government of Australia. The Treasurer says the impact of rate rises is smashing the economy. What’s he saying about and to the Reserve Bank board before it next meets later this month?
SENATOR AYRES
Well, I think Jim Chalmers is saying exactly what he’s been saying, over the course of the last two years. The Reserve Bank of Australia is an independent institution that sets monetary policy in Australia. It’s increased interest rates in response to Australia’s experience, which is the same as all of our trading partners around the world where inflation’s been going up.
Of course, interest rates going up has an impact on ordinary Australians, particularly Australians who are making mortgage payments. It has a pretty tough impact on ordinary Australians …
GREG JENNETT
Smashing them in other words.
SENATOR AYRES
Well, there’s nothing wrong with using straightforward language that ordinary Australians understand explaining what’s going on in the economy, so that Australians understand what is going on here. That is why the Government has taken the approach that we have. Two back-to-back budget surpluses. Getting the fiscal policy settings right. It hasn’t been managed by a government for nearly 20 years. All of the cost-of-living measures. And I think what Jim’s really sitting out here is the cost-of-living measures that we have undertaken, which have reduced inflation themselves, but supporting families through what has been a pretty tough, pretty tough period. We had inflation with a six in front of it when, you know, shortly after when we took government, it’s now got a three in front of it. There’s …
GREG JENNETT
Still got a way to go…
SENATOR AYRES
But we’ve still got a way to go. And continuing to explain this. I don’t think it’s remarkable, this is Government getting on with the job.
GREG JENNETT
All right, that’s the Government explanation. Michael McCormack, there might be others and I’ll put it as a question who think this is jaw-boning of the Reserve Bank? Is it?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, it is. And, you know, according to Doctor Chalmers, it’s all the RBA’s fault. It’s all Michele Bullock’s fault. It’s all, who knows, Philip Lowe’s fault. He’s like the naughty boy who comes to school having not done his homework and then blames the dog for eating his homework and, yeah, I mean, two years of mismanagement of the economy. I mean, you only have to look at the last Budget where the biggest funding for agriculture was $107 million to shut down the live sheep trade export out of Western Australia. And then, of course, with the buybacks, the water – NFP – not for publication. So what they’re doing is they’re shutting down the industry but at the same time blaming the RBA for all the ills in the economy. Labor has mismanaged the economy such that we’ve got a cost-of-living crisis on Labor’s watch. Dr Chalmers refuses to do anything about it and blames the Reserve Bank, I mean, go figure.
GREG JENNETT
By the same token, Michael, we have very weak economic growth and that’ll probably be confirmed in the National Accounts on Wednesday. The prescription from your side is even less government spending. I think roughly $100 billion in alleged savings have been identified. Had that been adopted by the Government, we’d be in a perilous position, wouldn’t we? On the strength of the economy?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, you go out into the high streets and main streets of country Australia, indeed anywhere, and ask them has the Government handled the economy well? And the answer is an overwhelming ‘no’. I mean, go down to the main street of Blayney at the moment. Talk to Scott Ferguson, the Mayor of Blayney where, indeed, they not going to allow a gold mine to go ahead, which will create hundreds of jobs and boost the economy to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, this is the Labor way. They’re shutting down, they’re stopping everything and they think subsidies are going to help. They think the $300 of energy relief is going to somehow fix the power price surge that homes and small businesses across the country are facing. It’s simply not good enough.
GREG JENNETT
All right, Tim, you can pick up on that.
SENATOR AYRES
I mean, honestly, the problem here is that the Liberals and Nationals just aren’t up to the job. Three hundred dollars in energy bill relief does matter, does make a difference for families and is in conjunction with what the states and territory governments are doing, taken together with our energy bill relief measures that we took over the course of the last year, making a difference for Australian families. A tax cut for every single Australian family, a difficult decision that the Government made to revamp the old stage three Morrison tax cuts to make them fairer, is putting extra money in Australians’ pockets every single time the pay comes in, it’s reflected in their pay slips now. It makes a difference. Improvements in terms of the affordability of childcare have cut childcare bills for every Australian household that sends kids to childcare. The list goes on and on and on …
GREG JENNETT
Yeah, I know it’s a long list, Tim, but …
SENATOR AYRES
… all of these things have been opposed by the Liberals and Nationals …
GREG JENNETT
There doesn’t seem to be much recognition, does there? I think, the pollsters in this area told us on this program that you’re talking in the hundreds and households are wanting in the thousands. There’s that disconnect, isn’t there?
SENATOR AYRES
Well, we are working as a Government in a steady way through the cost-of-living issues that have been experienced by ordinary Australians, the Liberals and Nationals, they talk about fiscal management, they never delivered a surplus in their whole term of Government. Absolutely profligate. At the end of their period of government we had $1 trillion in debt and nothing to show for it, but nothing …
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Oh, come on, Tim …
SENATOR AYRES
… I mean, in social and in infrastructure terms.
GREG JENNETT
There was a pandemic there, I think, somewhere in the middle of that, Tim Ayres …
SENATOR AYRES
… We have got two back-to-back surpluses that are the result of careful savings measures and we have backed Australian households. Now, right now, we have got still more work to do. And we are going to keep working through those issues. But you’ve got a choice here, really, between a team who are utterly negative and not up to the real economic challenges that Australia faces in the here and now, but also for the future economy and the Government, which is carefully working through these issues and doing the very best it can every single day for Australian households.
GREG JENNETT
All right. I can offer you a very brief response if you want, Michael. Otherwise, I’m going to take …
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Carefully closing down industry, putting in place divisive referenda that, you know, it just divided the nation, spent $450 million, achieved nothing but upset people. And shutting down live sheep, irrigation communities. I mean, this is the Labor way.
Unfortunately, Tim didn’t mention the fact that the Johns Hopkins Research Center indicated that Australia was the second best in all of the world for pandemic preparedness. And we saved thousands of lives. We saved millions of jobs. That’s what we did and I’m proud of the fact that we did that as a Coalition Government.
GREG JENNETT
All right. Yeah, I think there might have been a misspeak there, Michael. I think we were talking, billions, not millions. But anyway, we’ll move on. GST as leverage against the states. So I’ll go to you first of all, Michael, on this. This was your Liberal colleague Andrew Bragg suggesting under questioning on Insiders that maybe the Commonwealth could withhold GST revenues to improve performance by the states on delivery of houses. You backing that?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, we have to do something and we have to look at policy areas which are going to, obviously, ensure that there is housing supply. But what we won’t be doing is – you see the Greens running around now backing the CFMEU, I’m sure Tim will probably even agree with me on this, the CFMEU which have held up so many construction projects, not just big infrastructure projects, but indeed housing as well. But the states are responsible for social housing, and something has to be done. If that’s a matter of docking states for not providing and producing housing supply, then it has got to be something to be looked at. But the Greens have done everything they can. And even at a Local Government level where Greens are holding, in some cases, balance of power, the development applications are such that people can’t get anything built. This is a big issue. And it’s an issue which needs to be resolved. It won’t be resolved by supporting the Greens, so let me tell you that for a start. But look, we’ve got to have a look at it. Andrew Bragg has put out a bit of a policy idea there and I think we need to have the discussion nationally about where it goes to from here.
GREG JENNETT
All right, a bit of a policy idea, there, Tim Ayres, you up for that discussion about using GST as a bit of a stick on the states?
SENATOR AYRES
Well, you notice that Michael declined to back Andrew Bragg’s thought bubble. It’s a hare-brained thought bubble of a proposition. It just shows we are so close to an election. You know, sometime in the first half of next year Australia will be going to an election and we still don’t have a single economic policy thought-through costed policy from the Dutton-Littleproud Opposition. The idea that this thought bubble that you would dock states’ capacity to deliver education infrastructure in the bush, undercut social services and the other things that the State Governments deliver. Our model, the Albanese Government model, is to work in partnership with the states and to work in partnership with private industry to get the big things done that need to be done for the future of Australia.
We need to improve housing supply. Now, it’s not just a matter of let’s do something, anything. It’s a matter of working carefully through practical measures with the States and with the private sector to build more homes. These are tough things to do. But all we’ve got from the Liberals and Nationals is carping opposition and negativity. Not a single thought through costed policy. And, you know, there’s plenty of questions but no answers from this show because they’re just not up to it.
GREG JENNETT
We’ll watch further instalments that may come from Andrew Bragg and his colleagues. There’s super savings for housing, of course, which I think they’re further developing since the last election.
SENATOR AYRES
Well they’ve been developing them for a long time, Greg.
GREG JENNETT
Two-and-a-half years to be precise.
SENATOR AYRES
Nothing. Nothing thus far.
GREG JENNETT
All right. A quick final one, if I can squeeze it in with both of you. Because I think you both maintain a little bit of an interest here, Tim. As Assistant Trade Minister, Michael as a former Transport Minister. The smoke signals are coming from the private equity owners of Virgin Airlines that a portion of that airline or that company could be sold to Qatar Airways. I’ll go to you first of all, Michael, do you see any competition problems in that?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well we want to make sure if, that is in fact the case, then certainly, we do look after our national airlines. We do look after those Australian-based airlines which have provided great services. I travelled back to the city to Wagga Wagga the other day and there were only seven on the Rex flight. What I would say to people is to support Rex at all possible costs, because they are, in fact, one of the only carriers flying to many of those rural and remote destinations. I think Tim would certainly agree with me there. We need a competitive Rex. We need a competitive airline industry and the fact that Rex is in voluntary administration, the fact that, Qantas’s turnover was very much down, their profit margins were very much down, just shows how volatile this industry is. And Virgin, but for the assistance that the Federal Government gave, that I provided to Virgin. Virgin were already in troubled times going into COVID. We assisted the aviation industry and in fact, saved the aviation industry with the assistance that we provided. And that’s another thing that Tim needs to know that …
GREG JENNETT
I’ll wrap you there, Michael, because we are right up against it. Tim, one to watch, do you think? And I’m sorry, I only have about 30 or 40 seconds for you but away you go.
SENATOR AYRES
Well it’s one to watch, certainly. I agree largely with Michael’s points. It is absolutely vital that we provide as much competition routes and aircraft on regional routes, but also, you know, all of our domestic … it’s such an important sector for Australia, for business, for households and particularly for regional Australia. And the Government will do what it can here.
GREG JENNETT
We’ll pull that apart if and when that announcement comes through. We’ll wrap it up really quickly. Appreciate it from both of you. Michael McCormack, Tim Ayres, thanks again.
SENATOR AYRES
Thanks, Michael. Thanks, Greg.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Thanks, Tim. Thanks, Greg, all the best.
Ends 4.48PM